VANESSA CAVANAGH, RACHAEL CAVANAGH, & DEB SWAN on Ancestral Fire Regimes /205

Photo by Ahmed Zayan

It’s been almost a year since the 2019 wildfires that hurled across Australia began. We vividly recall harrowing images of burnt orange skies, vast swaths of scorched forest, and our beloved kin searching for shelter amidst one of the most intense wildfires. It’s estimated that nearly 30 million acres caught fire, over 20% of Australia’s forests were burnt, and around one billion animals perished. In this episode, we revisit this event with Vanessa Cavanagh, Deb Swan, and Rachael Cavanagh while also digging deeper to explore the historical land mismanagement that intensified these bushfires and the power and importance of cultural burning. Vanessa, Deb, and Rachael share that while we must bear witness to what was lost, we must also recognize that Australia needs fire, the land knows it intimately and ancestrally.

“We don’t fight fire – fire is a spirit that has always been used in Australia…”

— Episode 205

Vanessa Cavanagh is an Aboriginal woman with Bundjalung and Wonnarua ancestry. The Bundjalung and Wonnarua nations are both located in the state of New South Wales in Australia. Vanessa is a Ph.D. candidate and Associate Lecturer at the University of Wollongong, Australia. Her research explores and amplifies the experiences and empowerment of Aboriginal women in cultural burning in New South Wales. Vanessa’s passion is Indigenous leadership and the encouragement of Indigenous women in environmental conservation activities, she empowers these values within her various roles, including with family and community activity.

Deborah Kim Swan is a Ngarrindjeri mimini, with kinship affiliation to Darkinjung and  Awaba Country. Deborah currently works for Transport New South Wales as a Culture & Heritage Officer specializing in preservation, traditional land management practices, and women’s cultural practices. Deborah is passionate about Indigenous rights and justice for Aboriginal women and the environment. 

Rachael Cavanagh is a Minjungbal woman from the Bundjalung/Yugambeh Nations of South East Queensland and Northern New South Wales. Rachael currently works as an Aboriginal Partnerships Liaison for Forestry Corporation of New South Wales and is the Principle Cultural Heritage Advisor for Currie Country Foundation. Rachael’s passion for her People, Country, and Culture is embedded in everything she does. She is currently a Member of the National Indigenous Working Group for Forest Stewardship Council Australia and Chair of the Clarence Valley Women’s Refuge. 

We begin our conversation by learning about the extent of the 2019-2020 fires, how and why it was unlike traditional fire seasons, and the difference between cultural burning and wildfires. Deb, Vanessa, and Rachael also share the role of Indigenous women in cultural burning, the relationship between kin and fire, and how the intensity and scale of these bushfires need to be situated in context to the Australian government’s continued aggressive expansion of fossil fuels and coal mining.

♫ Music by Santiago Cordoba, Kaivalya and Grief Is A River/Sarah Knapp

Vanessa Cavanagh

Deborah Swan

Rachael Cavanagh

Episode References & Recommendations

Firesticks Alliance

Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia by Victor Steffensen

For Aboriginal Peoples in Australia, Fires Flame ‘a Sense of Perpetual Grief’ by Bhiamie Williamson, Jessica Weir and Vanessa Cavanagh

RIGHT COUNTRY – RIGHT FIRE Podcast

Empower Firesticks Practitioners To Restore Cultural Fire

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