Transcript: SAMUEL GENSAW III on the Restorative Revolution /256
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Hello and welcome to For The Wild Podcast, I’m Ayana Young. Today I’m speaking with Samuel Gensaw III.
Samuel Gensaw III No matter where you're from in this world, you come from this world, you come from somewhere, you have roots to this planet, this living being that we're all walking, and we're all a part of. So we have to acknowledge that and even if your roots are based in colonization, even if your grandfather was a straight killer, you have to admit that, you have to live with that, you have to grow from that and not let it define who you are today, but let it inspire you to invest the next generation. So nobody has experienced that.
Ayana Young Samuel Gensaw III is the founding director of the Award-winning Ancestral Guard program. Currently, he is the youngest person to serve as the vice-chairman of the Yurok tribe’s natural resources committee. He and fellow Ancestral Guard members are featured in the documentary, Gather, which focuses on the growing movement among Native Americans to reclaim their spiritual, political, and cultural identities through food sovereignty.
Well, Samuel, thank you so much for joining us on For The Wild Podcast. I've been really excited to speak to you since I saw you in the film Gather which everybody should go watch if they haven't already. I'm sure a lot of you have, so watch it a second time. And yeah, thanks so much for being with us.
Samuel Gensaw III Yeah, I'm really honored to be here and share a space with like-minded people, because that's how we're going to build towards, you know, common goals. So I'm thankful to be here and share my story with you and your people.
Ayana Young Thank you, Samuel. So, I want to begin this conversation talking about the Yurok lands and they envelop around what we know as the Klamath River and the Pacific Coast, for listeners who are joining us from far away, I wonder if you could begin by introducing us to this place through the sights, smells, and sounds of the surrounding forestlands, lagoons, estuaries, and seascapes.
Samuel Gensaw III Yes, so Northern California, I love it so much. You know, I've had the opportunity to grow up in the same village as my grandfather and his grandfather and drink from the same creek, straight the estuary in the Klamath River, and when I close my eyes, and I think about the mouth of the Klamath River, I feel that cold rush of ocean water as it mixes in with a little bit of lower temperature river water, and you can just hear the seals, sea lions, and pups just living their best life down there at the mouth of the river. And right now it's eel season, so the Pacific lamprey are swimming up the river, this is an ancient species that is older than salmon actually, it's been coming here for 1000s of years. And luckily, we have the ability to harvest these fish, these ancient fish, and provide for families. So right now that's what I'm thinking of, that's what's on my mind. And often, when I schedule meetings, it's scheduled around the tides and what fishing season it is. So yeah, everyone's pretty lucky the fish aren't running today.
Ayana Young Well, that was so beautiful. Thank you for grounding us in place and I'm familiar with those lands just a bit north of me and I'm so moved by the grandeur and beauty of this place and yeah just speaking about the river as you just did, the abundance of the Klamath River has been severely restricted since the late 1700s by way of mining, logging and damming. For example, this river was once home to the 3rd largest salmon run in the lower 48, now northern California is risking the collapse of the entire salmon population. As a Yurok fisherman, can you speak to the history of the Klamath, and how the runs have been historically impacted by colonial development across the West?
Samuel Gensaw III This river has been providing for our people since the beginning of time and when we say that, we say that often, what we don't realize is that some of these oral traditions that are shared amongst our people go way back, and they say that there was only this little pocket of life thankfully, because of the redwood trees, the ancient redwood trees that protected us. So since the beginning of time, since some of our earliest stories, we have the systems of reciprocity with the natural world, and that's kind of sustained our lives throughout the years, whether it be modern colonization that we're facing today, with political plans, and, you know, agendas that don't fit the needs of the people in Northern California, or whether it be a couple 100 years ago when they thought gold was, you know, just everywhere up here, and turns out it wasn't and then people started, instead of making money off digging gold, people were making money from clearing the lands of Indigenous people, and that land then being gifted to them by the government.
So these lands and these systems of reciprocity have carried our people through unimaginable burdens and these people who have made that journey throughout these lifetimes, have built the society that we know today in Northern California. And if you look across America, I truly believe that America was built on the backs of Indigenous people under the blood, sweat, and tears of Indigenous people from all around the world. And if you look around today, in America, the American dream is being kept alive by Indigenous people from all around the world. So this connection that we have, with the Earth as a living organism, and understanding that we need to carry these values of world renewal with us on a daily basis, and understanding that if we do not continue these systems of reciprocity, with this Earth, then there will be no system to maintain. And that's kind of the driving force behind why salmon are so important to us. Because salmon, everybody knows salmon is a keystone species. You know, a lot of people don't know that salmon have nurtured the forest around the rivers for 1000s of years and developed this unique landscape to what it is today, all this beauty that we see around us, all life stems from the Earth, the beginning water, you know, that first, water has led to all life on Earth. And so we respect and acknowledge this on a daily basis, and that kind of guides our work and our hand, every day.
Ayana Young Thank you so much for sharing that and your words were really moving to hear. And yeah, across the so-called United States, there has been a swell in movement to finally remove dams that have been causing harm for decades, and after a 20-year battle, the Klamath River dams will finally be removed by 2023, restoring salmon access to more than 400 miles of habitat. Can you share with us any important updates, or perhaps just general reflections on the kind of commitment and perseverance it has taken to push for the largest dam removal project in US history?
Samuel Gensaw III People have been risking their lives to ensure that our children have access to healthy opportunities and it's always been like this. When it comes to these dams on the Klamath River, it's like, slowly being spoon-fed poison and the impacts that it's had on our community have been detrimental to our health, to you know, our traditions or daily culture, and the people who have carried on that battle, and made it possible for me to enter into a culture of not only resistance but dedication for, you know, the next generation of people that we haven't even met yet. To be able to step into that space, I'm grateful because I started organizing around the Un-dam the Klamath Movement when I was 14 years old, and at that point in my life, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had no idea who I was, but I knew as a fisherman, that I needed a healthy river and I needed healthy land, to sustain my way of life and that's why I dedicated my time from the time I was 14 to right now, to making sure that you know I'm doing everything I can for these dams to come down. And I'm just a super small part of the whole system that's been at play because these dams have been on our river for around 100 years and in that time frame, we've seen salmon runs dwindle into nothing, lamprey dwindle into nothing, green sturgeon dwindle into nothing.
These aren’t only food. These aren’t only, you know, species that are swimming up to our river, these are opportunities to connect local humans, local people of Northern California, to the importance of why we should respect this place. Every time there's a salmon that cannot be caught by someone up here, that's an opportunity that somebody loses to be connected to this place. It's not just about harvesting, it's not just about putting food on the table, it's all about developing a mindset within this next generation that allows them to utilize the knowledge and skills of a fisherman, of a bowmaker, of regalia maker, of a singer, of a traditional dancer. Utilizing these skills and lessons that they learn at a young age and adulthood, so when they're making decisions on their own, they can look back and say I learned patience from setting my net, I learned discipline from building this regalia, I'm gonna apply these values and these skills to these obstacles that I'm facing today. And a loss of opportunity to do that means that these children, this next generation, will have problems that they will face continually and without that support, you know, the outcome is not going to be the best, but if we ensure that children have an opportunity to live in a place that provides for their education, that provides for that health care, that provides for the child care, that for provides for them, their whole life experience as a whole, the river does that. Our lands do that, these ceremonies do that.
So it creates less stress on a system that has been designed to care for our children in America. So we have all kinds of social workers that are overburdened right now, we have all kinds of health workers that are overburdened right now, and we live in a time where people don't have access to traditional spots, we're still fighting for access to our hunting grounds, we're still fighting for access to our fishing grounds, and that's why it's so important that we continue that fight and we can continue to make sure that our children have these opportunities because if they don't, then their children won't have these opportunities, and then their children won’t have these opportunities. But if we do stand up, and we do fight, and we do stand our ground for what we believe in and what we love, then it's going to set that example for the future generation. And it will be the common ground that we stand on, is a common belief that we need this place, and we need the space to be healthy. So our people continue to continue our way of life.
Ayana Young Hmm. There is so much good stuff in that last response. Thank you for taking us there and yeah, this conversation also reminds me about the length of restoration and the work that follows in the aftermath, both in terms of physical river restoration, the length of time required for salmon population to increase, but also the remediation of ancestral territories and the heart and spirit that is intertwined with the river, and how that relationship changes and can strengthen. So I wonder if you'd be willing to share what you think long term restoration will look like in your life and for the next generation after the dams come down?
Samuel Gensaw III Yeah, I'm glad you talk about that because, you know, that reminds me of the first time that we went to the Amazon rainforests, and when they first reached out to us, and they told us there are tribes that wanted to talk to us, to speak to us. We had no idea, we weren't a nonprofit organization, we weren't, you know, too organized at that point. And it was really shocking to me, and I was really scared, because what do I tell these people? They requested us from so far away, we're traveling, three different planes to get there, nine hours by boat to get to this village and the first question they asked is how are we still alive after dams have been built on our river for 100 years, when they are feeling the effects within days? I was dumbstruck, I didn't know what to say at that moment in time. But I realized that merely living our life as Indigenous people on this river system in Northern California, and fighting for our right to do so has led by example, to the point where we are now connected with Indigenous people from all around the world, who are fighting for the same opportunity to provide healthy learning experiences for their children. And we realized that colonization, some people believe it just happened, that colonization is just like an event, or you know, just a piece of policy that has been changed and so we don't have to worry about it any more and people need to get over it. I don't know how many times I've had that conversation with people, but in reality, colonization is an ever evolving process. It's a culture that is ripping through Indigenous lands right now, as we speak. The same tools of engagement were used in Northern California in the early 1900s, and late 1800s. Those same tools are being implemented across Indigenous lands in Brazil, they're being implemented in Indigenous lands across Malaysia, across Chile, and our people are facing the same colonization that completely destroyed our way of life. That's where we can find common ground, that's where we can unite and say, what's working for us and our community may also work for you and your community and that's what understanding that you can pass and you can live with the values of Indigenous people without appropriating the culture, because so many people, especially modern day scholars, and everybody, they get traditions and culture all muddled up in the same thing, they think it's the same thing. But in reality, they're very different. The traditions are the things that our grandparents did, that their grandparents did, their grandparents did, and their grandparents did for thousands of years, and traditions are the things that we will continue to do for the next couple thousands of years. Now, culture is constantly evolving and changing, and it's life, it's happening right now around us. And every day, it's different. Every year it changes and evolves.
So what we're trying to do is we're trying to get our families to get involved in growing their own food, having access to fresh, organic produce, and having access to the knowledge they need to teach their children, we're trying to get that into the daily culture. So if we can get these foods like lettuce, and tomatoes, and you know, greens, and potatoes, all these things that aren't traditional foods, if we can get these to become cultural foods first, so they're a part of our living experience, so when these young parents are building these into their daily culture and into their daily lives, it becomes culture, and it becomes tradition to the next generation. So although they're completely different, they're often connected, and that's where it gets kind of muddled together. So having a clear line between the two, has helped us identify easier methods of implementing our programming into the community.
Ayana Young Oh, that's so good to hear and I want to talk more about these gardens and the organic food and all that you just spoke to, but before we get to that, I wanted to bring up that in many conversations I’ve had on the program, I’ve been reminded that the environmental movement cannot simply adapt Traditional Ecological Knowledge for climate adaptation and mitigation without ensuring that Indigenous people are physically in charge of, and on the land to implement these practices. And this is certainly something that is coming up in California with regards to cultural burning, but I also think about this in context to the Yurok who have endured significant dispossession via timber corporations and the National Parks System. As an introduction to Ancestral Guard, can you speak to the importance of renewal, and reconnection to “resources” amidst a system that has chronically mismanaged the land?
Samuel Gensaw III Yeah, so I believe if you are part of the conservation effort and that effort does not put Indigenous people at the forefront of the decision making process, if that organization is not implementing Traditional Ecological Knowledge, and working with the Indigenous people of that area, you are a part of modern colonization, and that's a hard fact to swallow. I'm not saying everything you've ever done has been evil or not with the best intentions, but it goes back to being able to adapt to modern values of Indigenous people without appropriating the culture. There's only one way to do that, and that's not inclusion, because even saying, inclusion means that this whole process belongs to you, and you're bringing us to your table, because right now every climate issue that we're facing on this Earth, today, I guarantee you 100% of the solutions are sitting within the preschools and elementary schools of tribal nations from across the world. That's where our focus needs to be, you cannot go back, you cannot change time, but you can change your mindset today, you can change your value systems today. You can decide that you want to take that step from acknowledging that just adapting Indigenous terms and taking Indigenous culture, and applying it to your programming isn't enough. Land acknowledgement isn't enough, we have to take that next step, and restore these natural systems of reciprocity with the Earth that have been in play for thousands and thousands of years.
That's the thing with American culture that always gets me, is that Americans just think they came to this pristine place that was just ripe for the taking, and that it would be forever giving, because there was so much, but in reality is taken thousands and thousands of years of data collection, and implementing harvest management programs, and ensuring that our children understand that taking, and basically general capitalism will not support our way of life. That we need a system that has roots to these places, we need to restore these existing systems, we cannot recreate these systems, we have to go back and acknowledge that Indigenous communities hold the answers and solutions to their problems. So many times scholars come into the communities with answers, they come in with years of experience and they try to force these answers upon communities. You know, and I've just realized through our connection with UC Davis, that it's not always like that. We've had such an amazing opportunity with you know, Katherine Kim, a UC Davis professor who's dedicated time and energy into making sure that our people will have the necessities to collect data, credible data, and utilize that within our own systems for our own programming and our own people.
Ayana Young Oh, Samuel again you just brought so much beautiful reflection and I wanted to bring up that one of Ancestral Guard’s recent endeavors is the Victorious Gardens program. For listeners who are unfamiliar, they might be surprised to hear that food apartheid exists in a place like Northern California because so often the narrative focuses on food apartheid in urban settings, not rural locations as well. Can you share with us more about the Victorious Garden program, what is being grown, and at what scale?
Samuel Gensaw III There were thousands of dollars that were supposed to be brought into our community at one point in time, to help with food security, but in reality, all that money got absorbed into outside organizations who came in here, collected their own data, for their own different organizations, and then spent thousands of more dollars telling us that we live in a food desert, and there were no solutions brought to the table. So, you know, we have to realize that Indigenous people hold the solutions to their own problems and I say that again, and again, and again. Because when it comes to food sovereignty, and what we're doing with our food, it's not that originally, it wasn't a food sovereignty initiative, what we did is we asked, Indigenous youth, we were floating down a river one day, my brother John Luke, he is here with me today and he could tell you all about it, when we just first started teaching kids on how to fish properly with the right mentality, so that, you know, they can take care of themselves and their families. And it was because a bus didn’t show up one day, that’s truly the start of our food security initiative, our whole Ancestral Guard programming was because when the bus doesn’t show up on the rez, it doesn’t let anybody know it just doesn’t show up.
So we had all these kids leftover and my brother, John Luke, it was his friends, he brought them in and they wanted to learn how to go fishing and so we did that, I got my buddy together and we borrowed a bunch of boats and equipment from a bunch of neighbors and told them what we were doing and everybody was so supportive in our community, and we took these kids fishing. Before we did that, we had to teach them how to row and teach them how to set the net, and do all these things. And it was like peer to peer with my brothers because they're like fishing machines, but they were given guidance, given everything they needed to make it happen. And then as we're going down the river, all my training as a community organizer started to kick in, I said “Wow, this a prime opportunity right here” because I’ve spent my whole life dedicate to providing healthy opportunities for my people since I’ve been in trainings up and down the West Coast and across the United States since I was 13-14 years old, and at that moment in time, I had seen a piece of cardboard floating around so I grabbed it, I grabbed the Sharpie, and I started asking all the kids, you know, what is it you want to see in your community? What is it that you'd like to see, and I wrote down what they said.
So we decided to focus on our Food Security Initiative and to that, we developed the Victorious Gardens Initiative, originally drawing inspiration from what the Indigenous youth said they'd like to have as a part of a food security system, and then rolling over and adopting programming from the United States government when they were at war, because we're constantly at war every day. So I wanted to bring those values into the programming and that's what we did. So we created the Victorious Gardens Initiative, which is modeled off of Victory Gardens and if you're not familiar with Victory Gardens, that's a whole other podcast and it's definitely worth a Google, but basically it's when the United States kind of mandated everybody to grow a garden, to provide for themselves in rough times because we couldn't supply for everybody. And even people grew gardens, and they supplied food for military people. So k taking those same concepts, we wanted to develop gardens that were privatized, because we realized that community gardens are not the solution in rural Northern California, because a majority of the time, the people who are doing the most work, or not the people that are reaping the benefits of the harvest.
Also we see that a lot of people don't have access to be able just to drive to a community garden, because we're so sprawled out that it takes 20 minutes to even show up to the community gardens, 20 minute drive there, 20 minute drive back, you know, for a lot of people, and they don't have the time, they don't have the money, they don't have the resources to do it. So we see a lot of community gardens just kind of fade away and kind of become an eyesore in our communities. So we realized that and we decided that's not where the energy that we wanted to go with. By that time community gardens are really starting to blow up, so you know, we took a lot of licks on that saying that we didn't want to do community gardens. But then we once we got support, to develop our system that was, you know, designed and engineered by Indigenous youth, that we had the opportunity to implement these privatized garden experiences for the community, we're setting up all local garden boxes in our community, for instance, we have a community of 20 here, in this little Yurok housing bock so all 20 households have six foot garden beds that are four foot wide and is filled with living soil that we built right in front of the eyes of every person and talked to them through the experience of why we are putting wood chips in there, why it’s so important that you know we have a living soil and then we’re coming through and we’re putting organic plant starts from a local nursery and then also offering an assisted gardening service for families where we come through at least once a week and make sure that they are maintaining a healthy garden to ensure a healthy harvest.
The reason why we're doing this is yes, we want to provide our people with fresh vegetables and greens, and so they have access to this place where it's technically a food desert, but, the real reason why we're doing it is because this is a first step of our Zero to Three Program, which we call the Seedling Society, where we have new mothers sign their babies up for the Ancestral Guard, as you know, young as not even born yet. They can sign their baby up for the Ancestral Guard, they get a garden box, we take care of them, we also provide Zoom meeting services for any cultural questions or mentoring that they would ever need and we're doing this because we realize if we want people to stand up for their rights, and not be worried about the food that's in their fridge or being able to provide the for their families, we have to start with a whole new generation of people, we have to ensure that there's babies alive today that don't know what it's like to come from a household that doesn't have a garden, or access to fresh nutritional produce. And that's the goal, because we want these children to grow up with the same experience that most people who are gardening today have. And that is that their auntie, their uncle, their grandma, their father, somebody in their family that they loved, maintained a garden, and the majority of the people that are gardening today, that is the primary reason why.
So there's been a generation that we've noticed through doing our studies with UC Berkeley, through their Future Food Pathways that we realized there's a whole generation within our community of people who don't know what it's like to have a garden in their household, and everybody, all their kids and stuff like that don't really know about gardening at all. But the people who do, they always say they have that fond memory, and you can almost see him go back in their mind and talk about how special it was to them. Those neurological pathways need to be rebuilt within this next generation of children. So if we can have a generation of children that when they reach adulthood, and they are facing their own problems and obstacles in life, that when they dig deep into their subconscious, and dig for answers, you know, they have the experiences, positive experiences of good mentors, they have the positive experiences of having access to fresh produce, they have these positive experiences of gardening with their families, and they say, “Okay I need to provide for my family today, I'm going to grow garden, because I know how to do that.” You know, we want to be able to have these children who look back on these building blocks, because this right now in their time frame in their life from zero to eight a large part of the subconscious is being developed and if we can get as many positive experiences or reinforced traditional actions or cultural values, then the better off I believe these children will be in the future. So in my mind, we're utilizing micronutrients to combat the ill effects of socioeconomic depression, within rural California communities, by not just giving families a handout, but giving families a hand up so they have the ability to take care of themselves, because we live in such a resilient community, we live amongst people who, you know, strive to provide a better life for their children, and we want to give them the opportunity to do so, these are the people we are working with.
And that's what is kind of interesting to people is that we're turning this whole idea of providing for community upside down and we're revitalizing food ways that have been been lying dormant in our community, because there's been this huge divide between fishermen and farmers in the Klamath Basin over water, and the water wars that are affecting all of us. And in the eyes of the government, it's really nice, because if Indians are fighting with farmers over drops the water from the bucket, then at they are diverting, you know, 80% of a river, down to Southern California, literally diverting you know thousands and thousands of gallons of water on a daily basis from the poorest communities in California and they are diverting them to some of the richest agricultural communities in the world and then our governor on top of that, right now, has declared drought in California, but only for those agricultural communities so there's no protection for our people up here where the water's coming from. And that's systematic oppression. that we're facing today.
So when we realize that these skills that we're learning on the river, these skills that we're learning as fishermen, these skills we are learning as beaders, and the skills we’re learning as Indigenous people are the strongest tools, these value systems are the strongest tools for colonization that’s ever been developed through any generation, through any society. Why? Because for the first time in America we’re seeing politicians represent the people. We are seeing Indigenous people in places of power that we've never seen before and we have to utilize any opportunity we have to protect these places. And right now, the war over water in our community is tearing apart everything we've ever built. One, even if they ripped out all the dams today, right now, we still wouldn't have enough flow, proper flow in the river to meet the minimal need for a healthy salmon run. And right now the farmers on the upper basin, the government has allotted them 35,000 acres of water, seems like a lot right? But for a healthy harvest for them, they need 500,000 acre feet of water, and right now they are alloted 35. Meanwhile, over 60%-80% of the Trinity River is being diverted from our watershed down south to protected farmers who have no idea about reciprocity with the land, the concept does not exist for them. All it is, is an extractive action that is stacking money in a bank account.
And that's what we're fighting against, some of the richest people in the world, some of the most well connected people in the world, and their number one competition for their money is Indigenous people trying to feed their families. And right now, the California Drought Action Plan proposed by Governor Newsome doesn't even include our communities, and that's what's scary, is that here, I figured, if I spent my whole young life dedicated to fighting for rights, that there would be a break for our children, there'd be a break for this next generation, like they wouldn't have to work as hard. But what I've realized now is that if you want to see the future of water, look no farther than what's going on in the Klamath Basin, because exactly what's happening to our people right now, is happening to Indigenous people all around the world. Exactly what's happening to our people right now, is the face of modern colonization at its finest, but what's happening right now, as well, as we're raising a generation of gifted individuals who will have access to healthy foods at a very young age, to have access to education, Indigenous based education practices at a very young age, and we are grooming the next generation of leaders. And they, they don't even know, because in reality, all we're doing is we're providing healthy opportunities for these children and that's what's going to save all of us, is that we continue to look at the children of the next generation, as the people who are going to save us, we have to stop looking at these, these children, as you know, youngsters are kids, and we have to start looking at them as young elders, as people who will lead the next generation on this planet. Having said that, what I say is always invest in Indigenous youth, youth in general, give them responsibility. Let them understand what's going on. You're never too young.
I remember at the age of 13, I was already facing, you know, problems that affected thousands of people and I understood those things, I wanted to help and I wanted to do something about it and the opportunity was there for me to do something about and learn about it. These skills aren't just for Indigenous people, these skills are for everybody, because no matter where you're from, in this world, you come from this world, you come from somewhere, you have roots to this planet, this living being that we're all walking, we're all a part of. So we have to acknowledge that and even if your roots are based in colonization, even if your grandfather was a straight killer, you have to admit that you have to live with that and you have to grow from that. And not let it define who you are today, but let it inspire you to invest in the next generation. So nobody has to experience that.
Because a lot of people talk about historical trauma, and they talk about Indigenous people having historical trauma, and all these things like heart disease and all these things that sprawl from it or connect to it. When in reality, the historical resilience of our people is amazing. The fact that they went through every single stage of genocide that the American government could develop, and still come out to develop societies that are leading the new world today, and leading the conservation efforts across California, this is what we need to acknowledge and understand that these opportunities exist within Indian Country, that opportunities to learn from Indigenous people are still here. I just always wish that people respected Indigenous people, and loved Indigenous people, like they respected Indigenous artifacts, like they loved Indian stories. You know, and that's where we have to draw the line is that we have to acknowledge how important Indigenous people are in the role of survival for all of humanity.
Ayana Young Wow, that journey you just took us on with that response was so amazing. Thank you for sharing all of those intersections and stories with us. Yeah, it was very deep and I'm really glad that you brought up the topic of drought in California. I wanted to bring up that one of the more recent studies the Yurok tribe participated in was alongside UC Davis’s Superfund Project, which sought to identify contaminants on the Yurok reservation. And similarly, one might assume that because so much of the land remains undeveloped, folks should be healthier in terms of environmental pollution and toxins, but the tests that were run demonstrated the presence of many chemical toxins, including dioxins, mercury, various pesticides, and phenols. Can you share with us why there are such high rates of cancer in this area and how the Tribe is having to navigate the aftermaths of timberland management and illegal cannabis grows?
Samuel Gensaw III The easiest example I could use is the porcupine. If you were from Northern California at a young age, you’d see a bunch of porcupines and today you don’t see very many porcupines and you think it's because environmental impacts or, you know, we don't just don't have access to the lands where they are or whatever it may be. But in reality, you have to understand porcupines were wiped out. They were purposely killed, trapped, relocated, exterminated, because they would eat the new saplings of trees that were replanted. Now, these trees weren't natural trees, they weren't trees that you normally find in these areas. They're kind of like timber trees. And so it all comes back to money. Why our land is so polluted is because Northern California has always been used as a giant bank account for California.
If you look at the development of California from the railroads, you know, even California, why it's so long, why we are the longest state in the United States is because the railroads and because people wanted to avoid taxes being taxed, traveling through all the states and stuff. So if you just look at the way that money has evolved our way of life, it's just astonishing to think that thousands and thousands and thousands of years living in balance with our Earth and our planet and making sure that these opportunities exist for families to connect has been replaced with poisons and toxins all within the last hundred years. And the reason why we have so many chemicals in these places and our water sources and everything is because back in the day, the parks and timber companies used to spray deadly chemicals everywhere, all over the place. They knew Indigenous people were utilizing these places, but they didn’t tell anybody. They didn’t care and lots of people are getting cancer because our elders are basket weaver's, they were putting all these materials in their mouths, and they're utilizing them, and we're putting our babies in the baskets that we create, and all these forever chemicals what we know them as, were sprayed everywhere, all in the name of conservation.
So I like to tell people, if you are part of a conservation effort, that does not put Indigenous people at the forefront of the decision making processes. If you are part of a conservation effort that is not utilizing traditional land management practices, then you are a part of modern colonization. And it's something that's so wild to think about, that people who care about the environment can be colonizing Indigenous lands at the same time, because it's always been the retreat. Well I may not know about that, but I care about the environment, but I’m going to make sure these trees are still here, but the idea of conservation has roots in Christianity, modern conservation has roots in Christianity to a point where you think these lands are sacred so you don’t touch them. You don't go near them, you keep everybody away from them, because the American culture is so destructive, even allowing people to be there will decimate it. And it's true. As Americans, you know, we're greedy. We have tendencies to not care, as long as we're doing all right. But the Indigenous values, what happens then is you are cutting out an endangered species from that ecosystem that has been keeping it in balance for the last thousand years, and that species is my cousin, it's me, it's my brothers, my sisters, we are being cut out from these lands where we set fires to make sure that the underbrush didn't grow out to burn down the forest, to make sure that the creeks are cleared out so they're not being over bushed, to make sure that these animals are kept in check in, to make sure that the balance of this place is kept in check. That's our whole reason for living in existence right now as people of world renewal is to protect these lands and make sure that they are healthy and modern conservation efforts are stopping us.
Today, as an individual, I've had guns pulled on me for fishing, I've been chased with a helicopter simply for fishing because a car was stolen twenty miles away and we look suspicious. You know, I mean, I've been almost dragged into court for hunting elk, on our ancestral territories in a completely legal manner, been told I’d go to prison, and I'd have to pay you know, thousands of dollars in fines and lose my gun rights. I've been thrown down on the pier and detained in handcuffs by eight officers, cop dogs on us because a man in an American flag ascot was intimidated by our presence when we were crabbing on the pier. These modern methods of conservation are constantly creating opportunities for our people to be caught up in the system and once our people are caught up in the system, it is so hard to escape, it's probably harder to get out of the system than it is to quit drugs, because everything you do, every aspect of your life, your current culture, which today's culture is a lot different than what people think of Indigenous culture, because like I said earlier, the traditions are things that our families have always done are cultures are our daily living experiences. And right now, our culture is if you're caught in the system, and you can't afford to make it to your probation meeting, you can go back to jail. If you can't make it to a meeting or if you mess up or if any of these things you're caught and so far from the system, it takes years to get out. And that all stems from not allowing Indigenous people access to our lands, to our ceremonies. You have to realize it was illegal for my grandparents, my great grandfather to be Indigenous, and it was punishable by death. He was born in 1912, and that was almost two full years before they made it illegal to take somebody’s scalp for money, Indigenous people’s scalp for money. So it's not even that long ago. The government promised the people of Northern California if you exterminate the Indigenous people on your land, and you can prove to us by showing us scalps of men, women and children that you did so, we'll give you the land and then you can make money and get rich off the timber industry. These are the types of systems that modern conservation comes from, keeping people off your land, stopping people from being there. These are what we're facing today and a part of that process was spraying chemicals on plants, when you can no longer just walk up and scalp somebody, it was spraying chemicals on plants, making sure any of the plants that they needed, or why they weren’t there no more, making sure that the animals that they needed, aren't there no more, making sure that they have no access to these points. These are the things that I'm facing on a daily basis as I try to fight for the health of your children. And I do this with very little funding. We do this with very little support.
We may not live to see the results, but we're going to do what's right, we may end up in prison, but we're gonna do what's right, I may lose my rights as an American, but we're gonna do what's right. And so far, it's worked. So far, I haven't lost my rights. So far, I have never been to jail. I've never been to prison. Because I've had so much support behind me, and in front of me, and to the side of me and we're all coming together. Because if we try to tackle this on our own, just the Yurok Tribe, we wouldn't have the success we have today. I'm so thankful for the leaders, because they enabled us to build these connections with neighboring tribes to ensure that Indigenous based land management practices are heard on a statewide level. We have ensured that conservation efforts have included Indigenous people. And if you look today, we face our own problems. The governor of California was in a redwood canoe on our river talking to people about the importance of this water basin, and just the other week turned around and denied us relief or access to say our communities are in dire need because of the drought, the only people allowed access to those were agricultural district farmers. So again, if you are part of a system or if you are a part of a conservation effort, that doesn't put Indigenous people at the forefront of the decision making process, or doesn't implement traditional based land management practices, and works with the tribes and Indigenous local people. You are a part of modern colonization and you have to change that today.
Ayana Young Yes, thank you for speaking so clearly and strongly to this. I'm really with you and yeah, there's so much to take in from what you just shared and I’m thinking about this scene in Gather where you and members of Ancestral Guard are going out to fish, and you teach a young member about the importance of respecting the seals, and not interfering with their presence or habitat. And I’m thinking about this sphere of men’s work in context to healing from a patriarchal system...I wonder if you could share a bit about bringing back balance to our relationship with each other, the land, and our more than-human-kin, and specifically how Ancestral Guard is teaching young boys and men about respect?
Samuel Gensaw III Yeah, I was raised, a lot of my a lot of the men in my family have been caught up in the system for doing that just hunting and trying to take care of their families, whether it be growing cannabis to provide for their household, or whether it be hunting on Park lands, or private lands, which are Indigenous territories, a lot of our male mentors have been caught up in the system or died young. And my grandmother was a very strong woman, she fought for Indigenous health care when people told her she was crazy for doing that and my other grandmother fought for Indigenous education, when people told me she was crazy for doing that and we've had so many powerful women, you know, leading the way for our people, from the dam removal efforts to securing our rights as Indigenous people to you know, being able to provide for our people today and even in our organization, it's the women in our organization - most of our board members are Indigenous women and that's by design, because the knowledge and the abilities that have been slept on by America is just astonishing, because Indigenous women have always held power in our culture, and in our traditions and our way of life.
So respecting women and having that boundary those, those boundaries with men and women, and just all people in our community in between, you know, whether you're in transition phase, or whatever it is going on, whatever your pronouns are, you know, there's that respect, and there's that medicine that we all abide by. And when you're fighting for your rights, that stuff, none of that, creating divide between people, it doesn't matter when we're all being affected by the same sickness, which are these dams. So in our community, having the ability to see strong women in roles of leadership positions from a young age, have carved out of respect for, I don't even know respect for life is hard to even think about it, because it's just so ingrained in us that, you know, I've never thought of women as being less capable, it's just not like that they are always the powerful people, in all of our stories and everything.
Growing up, having all these positive experiences, has really led to me being able to say I love you. And that's one thing I want to tell people too, and especially young men. I've been in more fistfights than zoom calls, and you know, as a fisherman, I've spent most of my life on the river. And having, you know, having the ability to say, I love you, to another human being is so important. It shouldn't matter if it's a man, woman, transgender, anybody as a human being, being able to say, I love you, is so important. It's so important that there's different words for in our culture. There is [Yurok language] which means I love you, to your wife, husband, or significant other, or [Yurok language] means I love you as my family member, I love for you and care for you in a platonic way but in the deepest sense, and a prime example of that is just the other day we lost somebody in our community who drowned at the mouth of the Klamath River and one of the last things, he was one of my best friends, and one of the last things he said to me, was, I love you, and I said I love you too. And he drove off in this huge boat, and you know being able to have that be the last word that we shared it brings a huge sense of closure and it brings a sense of everything is going to be alright, you know because some people don’t get that opportunity, because they don’t want to seem weak, but showing love doesn't make you weak, showing love and seeing that it's not reciprocated or it's not given back to you, and doing nothing about it makes you weak. Because if you're doing your best to live a good life and taking care of yourself, mentally, physically, spiritually, and you're trying to share that wealth with people, and they're not bringing it back to you and if they're not showing you the same love, that's not your [Yurok], which means your close ones, it could be anybody, it could be your brother, your sister, your cousin, your friend. And we say [Yurok] are the people who love you, who love you back, and that is the roughest English translation out there there is, but if you don't share that, if that love is there, and you're not feeling that love, you don't do anything to change that, that is weakness. But if you yourself, understand that, and if you stop investing so much of your precious time and energy into people, organizations, and places who aren't showing that reciprocity, who aren't loving you back, then you need to make the change in your life. Because once you start surrounding yourself with people who you love, who love you back, everybody understands how important it is to protect this land and these places so we can continue to provide that opportunity, and these are values of world renewal that transcend everything that I do on a daily basis, they transcend through programmings, through conversations, the way that I get into relationships and the way that I end relationships, these values are constantly at play.
That is where we can utilize Indigenous values of world renewal without appropriating the culture of world renewal and the easiest example for me to explain how that works is not too long ago, I took that 23 & Me test and found out that I’m a big part Zapotec and I was so excited, but you didn’t see me go down there and just try to take from them are take from their culture and bring it in to back home with me and use it however I see fit, or put it into my culture or use it, no I did my research, I figured out, I learned, I immersed myself in the knowledge not just of just passive basic Google research, but trying to reach out to people that you know, and it's that kind of thing that is lost in modern appreciation, modern acknowledgement, because people think it's okay for me to appropriate this culture, because I acknowledge the importance of it. In reality, no, no, just don't do that. Just be appreciative that you can hold the same values as somebody else and you can hold those same values. And you can hold people accountable to those values, which is the most important thing, because once you take care of yourself, the most important thing is you don't let people walk all over you. You don't let people treat you with disrespect. You don't let people do that to you. That's where that power comes from and knowing who you are, knowing where you stand right now and knowing who stands with you, gives you that power to take care of these places and I have my ancestors to thank for that, because no matter what they went through the rape, the molestation, the Christian culture which devoured our way of life, all these things that they faced, they came home and they taught us these values and they implemented them into our lives. So we may do the same one day.
Ayana Young So beautiful, and on Ancestral Guard’s Instagram, there is a post that shares the following: “The world needs your positivity more than ever. As people of world renewal it is our responsibility to reconnect with the rhythmic elements of our planet.”, and as we come to a close I wonder if you could share any reflections you have on the responsibility you have to renewal? Also where can people connect with and further support the Ancestral Guard?
Samuel Gensaw III You know, the way I look at it is I don't think I don't see it as a culture that I make time for, it's more of like, this is my life and I make time for other things. You know, so it's really hard for me to differentiate why it is so important and why it is a part of my everyday life, because it's not something I can just turn off or something I can just walk away from, because no matter where I'm at in this world, no matter what I'm doing, even if I'm robbing banks, I'm still going to be a man of world renewal and there is nothing I can do to change that because it’s in my blood, it’s in my DNA, and it’s within my subconscious, I believe that we all have the ability to realize what's right and what's wrong. It's not black and white, but it is what's right right now and what's wrong right now, what works best for you and your life.
You know, it's applying these values to daily decisions that will elevate your experience as a living human being. And that's what it comes down to. You don't have to go try to save the world and take the problems of the world and throw them on your shoulders, don’t do that because that’s how you’re going to get burnt out and once you get burnt out people don’t need you, and once people don’t need you they don’t worry about you. But if you’re strong, and if you maintain who you are, your integrity to why you're even in this, why you're even existing in the first place. Once you know, you find your own strength and realize that you can’t derive strength from anywhere else except from within you. Trust doesn't come from anywhere but within you. Love doesn't come from anywhere, except within you. So you have to understand that applying these values to your daily life is one of the most important things you can do to help me, to help anybody, take care of yourself, take care of the people you love, and make sure you take care of the land that you live on.
But if you would like to learn more, if you'd like to, you know, come check us out, we do traditional Redwood canoe rides for people on the Klamath River to kind of help experience and really immerse people in why we are fighting so hard to protect this place, come through, enjoy conversation, eat some salmon with us in our garden. If you want to support the work we're doing, you can reach out through email at NatureRightsCouncil.org or you can email me, Instagram us, Facebook me, or just reach out if that is what you feel like you need to do. Otherwise, just take care of yourself and provide healthy opportunities for the youth in your life. Because that is what somebody did for me, and it’s something that I’m so thankful for that I will continue to do for the rest of my life.
Ayana Young Wow, Samuel, this has been such an incredible time to spend together in just so much wisdom that you're slinging our way. Thank you so much for all the work that you've done, clearly both, you know, on the outside, but also so much inner work that you have sorted through to be able to come to this work and into this Earth in the way you do so I just want to say I'm so grateful for all that you are doing and have done in the past and will continue to do for the future and For The Wild definitely stands with you and your work. And for those of you who have been moved by this conversation, I really think that you know, head over to Ancestral Guard and watch Gather so you can see Samuel in his land, doing what he does. So thank you.
Samuel Gensaw III Gather will be out on Netflix on November 1st I believe so it’ll be easier to access. And we also have a documentary out on YouTube right now called Guardians of the River, which is kind of like a sequel to Gather because it kind of explains about, you know where we're at in our gardens right now and about dam removal. So if you have some time, if you haven't been tired of listening to me talk already, go ahead and check that out.
Francesca Glaspell Thank you for listening to For The Wild Podcast, the music you heard today was by Lake Mary, All The Queen’s Ravens, and Jess Williamson. For The Wild is created by Ayana Young, Erica Ekrem, Francesca Glaspell, and Julia Jackson.