Transcript: MARCELLA KROLL on the Magic of Neurodiverse Futurisms /263
Ayana Young For The Wild is brought to you in part by the Kalliopeia Foundation who supports reconnecting ecology, culture, and spirituality. We are grateful for their continued support and the support of grassroots contributions from listeners like you. Learn more at Kalliopeia.org. To make a donation, visit ForTheWild.world/donate, or find us on Patreon. If you’d like to support us in other ways, consider sharing our episodes through social media or leaving us a review wherever you listen to the podcast.
Hello, and welcome to For the Wild Podcast. I'm Ayana Young. Today I'm speaking with Marcela Kroll.
Marcela Kroll is a neurodivergent multi-dimensional artist, performer, and spiritualist. She is the creator of three divination decks, illustrator and author of The Grimoire Priestess, and host of the podcast Saved by the Spell. Through her one-on-one sessions, she offers her clients space and perspective to empower themselves on their own unique path while offering classes and workshops that honor ancestral healing for those living in the liminal spaces, empowering magical practices and reclaiming your birthright as a sovereign being. She also is a program presenter for the Los Angeles Public Library, offering divination workshops to teens and tweens.
Well, Marcella, I am so grateful to be speaking with you today. Thank you for being on for the wild podcast.
Marcella Kroll Hello, thank you for having me. I am honored to be here today.
Ayana Young I think we're going to have some really good back and forth. And in preparation for our conversation, I've been thinking about how anything that is perceived as being outside of intellect and rationality has been deemed unworthy, unreal, and, you know, even demonized by the over-culture.
And I think this is certainly true when it comes to the realms which your work traverses through divination, ritual, spell, and perhaps the overall work of healing as well. So to begin, I wonder if you could speak to the importance of acknowledging the tremendous power held by magical, intuitive practices and practitioners as we seek to spin ourselves out of the reductionist intellect-driven mindset that we find ourselves mired in?
Marcella Kroll Well, I think the first thing to acknowledge is that just because we can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's a strong desire to connect with the tangible and only see that as valid, but I mean, we breathe oxygen, and we cannot see it. And yet we know it exists. I think that the absence of magic can lead to the absence of creativity, the absence or, I would say, loose connection to our own emotions even. And there needs to be a balance in order to live a full-spectrum life. So I tend not to intellectualize it too much. Not because I don't think it's worthy of intellect. But perhaps, if we looked at the invisible, the unseen and, perhaps the fantastical or magical as something that is interwoven in our day to day, just as breathing our air or doing the day to day things, then perhaps it wouldn't feel like it's not tangible or unreachable, or that only a select few have access to it. Because I think the magical mystical is available to anyone who desires to connect with it.
Ayana Young Yeah. Well, this leads me to my second question, which is sort of another general inquiry into how we might be able to aid others in their healing journey with integrity while also recognizing that we are all forced to function in a colonial capitalist world. On the one hand, I'm sure myself and listeners are familiar with how often folks label themselves as healers and shamans and witches to gain personal profit and notoriety. And on the other hand, I think about how practitioners who want to do this with integrity are also trapped living in a system that requires us to be transactional in order to survive. So, I'd love to hear your response to whatever tendril holds your interest in terms of how to practice with integrity or the current accessibility of these offerings.
Marcella Kroll I have a lot of mixed feelings about the commercialization of magic, yet there's a lot of responsibility that comes with doing this work. And I think that if you are placing yourself in the position of being a vessel to do your healing work, you really need to do your own work personally. And there's so much to weed through now. There are so many feelings that come up in me around this because for me personally, because that's all I can share with you out of integrity is my own experience, right? I can speak firsthand from my experience; I can't speak for others. But I can say that I did not want to do this work. Not initially; it’s painful. And the trend, or the quick fix to become popular or known, that's the dark side of it, right?
I think that there are people who are genuinely called to this work. And I think, as we are coming out of a dying, decaying capitalist, colonial society that is crumbling, but we're still existing in, but is still falling apart, there is more of a call for people, for healers to rise up and create community and create offerings in space to help other people grow and evolve through these changing times.
Because of the nature of the way our society as a whole works, there needs to still be survival, right? We can't do everything, for the good graces, just because. We still have bills to pay, and rent to cover or mortgages or mouths to feed. So yes, there's this desire to do this work, but also have to take care of yourself. I think during the last 18, 19 months we saw an increase, and people leaning into healing work or self-proclaiming these titles, which they have not earned, or had the life experience to go through and claim them. And it's kind of a challenge. It's a challenge to navigate that when you're hurting, as someone who's seeking help or support. I think this is a really big lesson in discernment right now that we are having to learn as a collective as a human community, about being discerning about whom to work with, and whom not to work with.
I'm having a hard time with my words right now. And I'm just putting that out there. Because some of these things are, I can't speak for a whole collective. I can only speak from my own experience. Do I think there are a lot of, maybe, people who are capitalizing and doing this work without integrity? Yes. Do I believe there are a lot of people who are in their integrity and authenticity? Yes. Do I think people feel the need to be pushed to some level of expertise before they're way before they're ready? Absolutely. And that's why it's of the utmost importance for us as individuals to continually check ourselves and go, okay, maybe I'm going towards this for the wrong reasons. We have to go forward, and then we take breaks. We have to turn the proverbial mic, if you will, over to others who have a voice or have something to share about how we're going to thrive during the decay of an old system. And I hope that gives some clarity to that question. I have a lot of feelings that I haven't sorted through fully because I’ve been doing this work as my sole income since 2009. And I've seen it go through waves and doing it anyway. I hope that provides some clarity for what you're asking.
Ayana Young Hearing your personal experience is valuable to understand what healers go through when trying to live into their purpose and scale and survive in a capitalist colonial system. I do feel that there was clarity, and I appreciate you sharing personal experiences that you have to navigate through. Another topic I'm really eager to explore with you is the intersections of algorithms, divination, and social media. And this is a topic that I've really only begun to think about. But for reference, I've noticed that with the rise of social media, especially Instagram and Tik Tok, I see more and more folks giving generic readings and claiming that if you've stumbled across their video, the message is meant for you. So I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on this in terms of ethics and energy of the cards and whether or not we should view algorithms as some sort of magical conduit in themselves?
Marcella Kroll Yes and no. I mean, again, it all comes back to discernment, right? Like, if you know your energy, if you know how you feel, right? Like if you know what you're feeling like, and then you open up an app. And some random Tik Tok comes up and is like, if you're seeing this on this day, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I am. Check-in and ask within the first three seconds, "Is this for me?" you can ask yourself that internally. Is this really for me? And you will get a yes or no.
Yes, there is this rise in I mean, you have to be also again, discerning and good at just looking at things as they are. If you open up to an account showing you something, they haven't shuffled the cards. They haven't pulled them. They’re just holding one up. I mean, did that person really tune in? You know, there have definitely been times where I've been pulled into a thing or reading, you know, via Tik Tok because I was in the algorithm, right? After liking a certain type of video, I'm now pulled into this algorithm of collective readings, right? And we can tailor the algorithm, by the way, we can tailor it by what we do consume and what we don't consume.
So I suggest periodically going through your accounts, looking at what you are mindlessly consuming, and going through and doing some editing and some energetic housekeeping, if you will, through those platforms. Sometimes they do hit. But again, the key thing is they're not all going to hit. They might feel urgent. That’s the other thing. Anything to me that screams urgency or fear, I usually shut it shut it down right away. Because that's reading fear, that’s not reading the soul or the spirit. Now, does it mean that the reading has to be light or positive? No. It doesn't. It can have depth and feel a little intense. But anything I feel that is truly a message for you is going to hit you or land in a way that you feel in your heart. Or maybe your shoulders relax, and you go, "Okay, I need to pay attention." Anything that's making you feel like you're on edge or you're being baited. It's just drawing your attention is just that.
I think there used to be more magic in the algorithm. But with the influx and the rise in popularity of anyone with a divination deck, or people that can go live and just do readings, you're going to have to sort through more things. Just like we have to sort through where we source our food from. Where we, if you get your hair done, there are a bazillion types of hairstylists. I'm just using that as an example. Because think of how many salons, barbershops, and boutique salons are out there. You have to use your discernment, right? Find out who you like, who resonates, who's going to give you the feeling of what you need? You certainly don't just blanket statement the mall. At least that's just my take on it.
Ayana Young It's so helpful to hear you speak to this because I'm sure many listeners have been in these situations where it's hard to discern and decipher what to trust. And I think a lot of that is learning how to trust oneself, which is I think so much of what you're speaking to is checking in and saying, Is this for me? And what does this feel like? And definitely, the over-culture has done its darndest to make sure we don't trust ourselves. Just touching on those things is super interesting. I've also been thinking about how unfettered capitalism will really profit off of whatever it can, even that which it used to demonize, just thinking into how many ancestral knowledge keepers were burned during Europe's witch hunts. And now, we fast forward to a place where the title of a witch is becoming trendy. So I just wonder what your thoughts are on this shift as someone who has been working in this realm long before it became clout-worthy via social media and maybe even mainstream?
Marcella Kroll I have a lot of opinions on that. When I first started voicing my opinion about those things around 2012, I got a lot of, “You’re a gatekeeper.” I get a lot of pushback, but it's unbelievable, sometimes to me, because the words don't hold what they mean anymore. They become fashionable or like an archetype. As someone being in this line of work, not intentionally, at first, but being pushed into it, and then finding out only like five years ago, I was reconnected with my biological father, who I did not know growing up. So I was disconnected from my lineage is on his side. And particularly, over the last three months, I have gotten so much information about my family of origin and their connection to the magical world and being persecuted for their connection to the other worlds and things like that. My great-grandmother was institutionalized in the 30s for seeing things and being in an interracial relationship in which she had my grandmother in an asylum. My grandmother actually read tarot cards at Woodstock, and she did make-up in a mortuary. And she'd hear dead people. And these were not celebrated things. You know, these were things that were hidden. These are things that got you locked up in an asylum to give birth to your child. And that was not that long ago, the 30s. Not to mention all of the other generational traumas in my varying lineages that could not have their practices until the 70s.
My mother is of Italian, Portuguese, and Coptic Egyptian descent. And then my father is Wampanoag tribe, Irish, West African, Filipino. And there are a lot of these lineages that were not allowed to practice or demonized. And now, people are self-proclaimed, without actually doing the ancestral work or research to put back into their own personal healing, before going and trying to help other people, which I think is highly irresponsible. I'm not saying you can't do your healing practice. But please work on your own line first, especially if there's pain there. It can be very infuriating. But also at the same time, you have to come to a point where you can be angry about it, or frustrated or upset and roll your eyes. Especially when they're marketing to people who are quote, unquote, inspired by the work you do, but they'll never give you the actual credit because they need to provide you with a surface cookie-cutter version of that so that they can make money. I don't want to sound bitter or resentful. I'm not. Because I know that no matter what, if this goes out of fashion and the next new thing comes up, I'm still going to be here. And I'm still going to be doing my work. And maybe one day, witch won't be cool again. And I'll pick it up where I left it because I don't really like the association. I have such a weird relationship with that word now because I don't want to be lumped into that. That category of, oh, you're one of those witch types?
Ayana Young Yeah. How culture shifts is so fascinating and the fickleness of trends can be really detrimental. I would like to move into a conversation on ancestral healing, which is how I originally came across your work. And I think about this topic in connection to our deeply human desire to belong and how so many of us with disjointed families who want to heal this lineage and in doing so, are grounded to the earth and each other in a way that has been lost with modernity. For listeners who are unfamiliar, I wonder if you could share your experience with ancestral healing and the connections between healing familial trauma, being in right relationship with one another, and being a good Earth steward?
Marcella Kroll Well, I have to say that growing up, had a really violent childhood early on, and then I also, my mother’s an addict and Party Monster and would follow bands and stuff. I'm telling you all this because this is with my origin story. When I was very little, I would spend a lot of time with my grandmother, who is Italian Catholic. And I had this very, like insulated Italian American Catholic world that was also deeply connected to some darker, I would say, activities, nefarious dealings, and things like that. And I was surrounded by this identity that was pushed on me of being like You're Italian American, and all of these other things about me were racist. As long as I was in that presence, and there was always this part of me that knew I was other, the way people treated me as though I didn't belong, but like I was an inconvenience. And I had very strong ties and connections to spirits and things like that at a young age, and no one to really talk to about it. And I always would connect to this idea that this isn't all of me. And so my journey early on to discover who I was, was immediately met with this feeling of being other than, and my only connection to feel at home in this world, as like a little kid, a little girl, like four or five, was to think I was from somewhere else. Because I never felt like I belonged.
As I got older, the search for myself turned into the annihilation of self because of that disjointed feeling and not feeling heard or understood. Having dreams about people that I've never seen. And in being told, you're delusional, even though you're in a family, and you don't look like anyone. Fast forward two years of trying to find the biological link because I never knew my father. And there were no answers. My mother was not helpful. She was very abusive. And taking up information and doing, you know, controversial to a lot of people, but DNA tests, and hiring private investigators, and having my questions answered through some forms of science, but then also having no answers because they all lead to dead ends. Magic and my art have been the only things that have been consistent in my life, my connection to Creator, universe. Those are the only things that I've felt deeply connected to consistently. So I turned to the invisible for support, because none of the humans, adults around me were capable of being that support, and I grew up in the city. So I didn't really have a connection to nature until I got older. I actually didn't have a connection to nature till I moved west in 2006. And that changed some things.
But mostly, I was determined to figure out, why am I like this? and do ancestral healing, whether or not they were present, because I knew they were present in spirit. Even if I did not have the physical beings around me or the stories to start with, I said, I can still connect and give back healing, even if I don't know who they are. And through that process and using my own creativity, one of the things I did early on was drawing a tree. And I wrote all along the tree, like the names of my mom and like a few other people that I knew their names, but then I wrote all over the tree, and the branches are ancestor, ancestor, ancestor, ancestor and made an altar because that's what I do. I use magic in conjunction with my physical life, right. And through that process, I created an ancestor altar and got a candle dedicated to ancestors and I kid you not, that candle burned for three days. And after years of no information when that candle finished, all of this new information came to me about relatives. And it was breadcrumb trails. And it only piqued my curiosity to keep going. I started to get information, I began to get names that I could add to that tree and other things. And I continued to be dedicated even though I couldn't see them and even though I knew that there were good and bad on all sides, it felt very important.
Move forward. I find my biological father on accident. Move forward. I find a cousin who gets me letters from the woman who took in my grandmother and the woman who took in my great-grandmother. Fast forward to August, I'm out on my ancestral homelands, at least for some of my ancestors, not all of them, eating traditional food, crying, because there's something so familiar here. So I think that it's so important for us to go into our root systems, whether or not we know them, whether or not we believe them, good or bad, or whatever in between, and send that healing down the line so that we can show up, so we can be a good ancestor to someone else. Because there are so many of these lineages that have just gone forward and have been selfish and have not left a legacy. And legacy does not mean a mansion and a million dollars. Legacies are about how are you going to leave the earth? How are you going to leave this world? How are you going to leave the structures? Are you just out, and you're going to hand off that responsibility to who's next? These are the things that I think about that no one in my family has ever thought about. Why would I why? I don't know. Maybe I just don't want to come back. You know, reincarnate again. Maybe I just don't want to leave a mess. I'm a firm believer in leaving things better than you found them. It doesn’t have to be perfect. But you can always do better.
Ayana Young That's a beautiful sentiment and something I want to live by. I remember this one conversation I was having. I think it was with Steven Jenkinson, about how do you die? Well, you live well. And I think that, yeah, I don't want to leave a mess behind physically, psychically. I have thought a lot of times to myself that the intergenerational trauma stops with me. And I felt really this kind of strange confidence in knowing that, that I don't want to just keep passing along ancestral pain onto the next. I mean, there's so much pain already in the world, which of course is coming from generations and generations of this type of disharmony.
Marcella Kroll And the other thing is, I'm not without causing harm at different points in my journey. I've caused harm. And, because the thing is, I want to encourage people to know that you're gonna mess up, you're not going to do it perfectly every time. You know, there are a lot of relatives of mine that are like, whoa, who are you? You don't look like any of us. What are you trying to do? What are you trying to get? And my enthusiasm and my relentless search for truth have always gotten me in trouble. Also, I'm neurodivergent, I'm autistic. I don't have the same operating system that neurotypical people do. So sometimes things can come off wrong, or be perceived in a way that's not respectful. Or, there's just been varying degrees and again, you're gonna mess up. I think it's important for us to learn how to mess up and do better next time. You know, but don't let that stop you from trying to do better. Because I see too many people give up. Well, I can't do it right. So I'm not gonna do it at all, which I think is not a healthy way to move forward either.
Ayana Young No searching for that type of perfection, it's really just re-traumatizing. And well, as a follow-up, I'd like to ask you about how we have pathologized folks, particularly women in the past, and how this relates to generational trauma and ancestral healing. For example, I think about the legacy of women who were targeted through the diagnosis of hysteria, which was given to any woman who exhibited any sort of behavior that was out of the norm, be it a desire, anxiety, etc. And interestingly enough, I've read that the height of hysteria diagnosis in America occurred during the same time that the women's rights movement was gaining traction. So I just love to ask a bit about how we can tend to and respond to this sort of ancestral trauma, as well as how this history should force us to really take stock of what we pathologized today?
Marcella Kroll Well, looking at the history of it. And as I mentioned earlier, my great-grandmother was institutionalized for seeing things for being in an interracial relationship for being wild, when really she was just existing. And, a lot of those behaviors or things that get demonized are because there's a fear of uncontrollability. And in terms of how do we heal that trauma, right? It's been years of deep fear, and resentment, for not being able to be fully myself because of fear of being punished. And I realized that that's a historical trauma. And I think that it has to be a combination, if we want to do it on a, say, an ancestral healing level. One of the things that I'm doing now is I'm actively acknowledging my ancestors, as they learn their name, by name, especially the women, I'm actively appreciating the things that I do now, so freely, that maybe my relatives did not have the opportunity to do and I continue to do my work and help and hopefully, hold space and encourage others to do the same. To take up space, to use your voice as a tool and not a weapon. And a lot of it comes down to getting back to ourselves as women or women-identifying. There is a lot of expected caretaking of others before tending to our own needs. And it sounds like that cliche and annoying, you can't pour from an empty cup. But it's true.
We have to get back to making sure that we are recharged, revitalized, and that we surround ourselves with others who will allow us the same safe containers to explore and heal those parts of ourselves. And the change is going to happen through witnessing it happen through other people. So a lot of people you know, are going to have to check other people. Cancel them? No, I don't believe in cancel-culture. But I think you can hold people accountable. And there are ways to invite people to show up and to hold space and offer support. There's a lot of expectation I would say with women and women-identifying beings to just keep going and not resting and then or there's this backlash of you know, infographics social media culture that’s about rest, rest, rest, but then the moment you do, you're not being productive enough. Or that voice comes back. We really need to be able to show up for each other and go, it's okay for you to take space. It's okay for you to expand beyond what society thinks you should do. And really give each other the space to devote to our own healing of our lineages. I think it's getting there. I think we are leaning into a more responsive way.
Ayana Young Thinking about healing our ancestral wounds leads me to think about narratives of loss and how we might honor our grief while also exercising our capacity to long for a different world. And this is very much in alignment with conversations I've carried over the years. But I'd like to bring this up with you in context to collapse, awakening, and recognition of civilizations that predate our lived human experience, all of which I've heard you speak about. I wonder if you could share how you're feeling into, and thinking about this moment of time as one, simultaneous collapse and awakening?
Marcella Kroll This is a big question or a big thought bubble. Let me see. Is it the collapse? Or is it the beginning? Is it an opportunity to step out of an old reality and actively make choices that create a new one? This is a cycle. Things get built, things decay and die. And we can grieve what is ending, not because we're sad about it, but because it's natural. We all got really, really good at doing the thing. We all got really good at living, not all of us. But you know what I mean, we all knew what to do, and what to be mad about. And now it's falling apart. But we're still in this place of trying to create new structures. And I think that's all you can do is, you have to take breaks. If there's anything the last 19 or so months taught us was that not everything has to operate on a one-speed limit? You have to find your own rhythm. And we have to learn how to grieve. A lot of our society is so afraid of death, that we avoid endings. And we can never truly start fresh without those endings. I'm excited. Am I excited about the pain that some are experiencing in this collapse? No. But am I excited for there to be fresh pathways and ways of living that are more sustainable, that are possible because other ideas have started to generate and come to the surface? Yes.
I think the thing that has really struck me is none of this is defined. This existence, this collapse isn't even defined. We have no idea what can happen. Yes, we can get clues and we can estimate and we can pathologize about what might happen or how things are going to go. But I think the escalation of the destruction of this old world is also leading to new and innovative ideas and leaders and thinkers, and creatives that have even more brilliant ideas about what to bring in. So we can choose to be in despair, which is understandable. And we can grieve which we should. But we can also leave a little wiggle room to invite in some fresh energy and some new perspectives. And balancing the scales in all areas, but we have to make those spaces available by not doing the same thing over and over again. Giving different platforms to different voices. Not taking things that are not yours and doing what you're good at. So, I don't know. We're here, right? We keep showing up, we keep waking up, we keep doing the thing until we don't do it anymore.
Ayana Young Thank you for simplifying this just enormous existential quandary. I think it's so relieving just to bring it back down. I know I can get so overwhelmed. And it's like one foot in front of the other. Do what we can, what else can we do? What other option is there, and I felt really nice to hear you say that. And you know, you're really open about your experience being neurodivergent. And I think it's only been fairly recently in which these recognitions have been honored.
Prior, it seems that the Western medical sphere really sought to pathologize any form of neuro divergence, be it bipolar, anxiety, autism, depression, ADHD, etc. And I say this a no way to insinuate that people shouldn't seek to get help via doctors or medication. But instead thinking into how so many movements are beginning to recognize that being all of who you are, is powerful and complex, and actually helps us battle the dominant story of homogeneity, which is killing relationships to Earth and each other. So could you speak to your own experience here and how you'd like to see more spaces reclaim and empower neurodivergent folks?
Marcella Kroll Well, that is where I love the kind of communities that I've found through social media, is finding connection through neurodiversity, through those platforms, different creators, and expressions. And I think, first of all, I do think self-diagnosis is important, and I don't think it discounts it. Your diagnosis isn't discounted because it's self-diagnosis. And it's really, like having a different operating system. And it comes back to really learning what our own frequency is, right? I like to look at it like record players that you can play like 45 speed or 33. We're not all one speed. And so life doesn't operate that way. I would love to see more flexibility in the world in safe containers for expression for neurodiverse people. We're getting it with the fall of capitalism, the people cannot work the way those structures were, not if we're going to survive and make it as people. And I think the more people that embrace neurodiversity as just a part of their operating system and not as an issue or something to be seen as faulty in their system, the more we're going to see spaces in places that cater support and nourishment to individuals and groups that have these kinds of connectivity. And not pressurize them to mask or fit in, in ways that cause them greater harm and greater pain. And I think you're going to find that more and more people are going to start claiming and owning their neurodiversity because they get to claim all the parts of themselves that they had to put to sleep. You're gonna have a lot of people grieving their former self, for not having the support, all the things that they could have thrived in before they knew. So I hope there are more spaces in places and people learn the language of neurodiversity. That's definitely a big dream of mine, to see that be more accessible.
Ayana Young Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, recently, I've been asking this of more and more guests, which is, I think we have seen just how difficult it can be to change people's minds, that the conditioning we subconsciously go through in some societies is incredibly strong. And so I bring this up, because I'd like to ask you about the importance of magic, or even trickster energy, in working with a culture that has proven itself committed to a way of thinking that is ultimately detrimental to the collective. So as we come to a close, I'm wondering if you could speak to where you see magic's place in the world right now. And how this practice can free us from conventional thinking. Or perhaps just thinking into any sort of offering and work that enables us to unravel some of our beliefs.
Marcella Kroll Believe in yourself, is the first thing that comes to mind, and not believing yourself in this, I believe I can do whatever I want. But believing in that deep knowing within you, that truth is so relevant and so potent for being open to the possibility of shifting and changing. I think a lot of what magic has to offer and has to do in this world is it creates a space to make the invisible, visible, which is what we, as humans, so desperately want proof of. And if we can get ourselves to believe that the only proof we need is in our own knowing then that is part of the magic right there. I think magic is a huge part of what is going to help us transition from a dying capitalist society into the next existence, whatever that means. I just want to, ask if anyone, even if you're doubting magic, even if you're not a believer in what you can't see. Just take a moment to think. Because at least one time in your life, something happened. It could be, doesn't matter how big or how small but there was something that happened that you could not explain. That brought you some kind of connection to the invisible. If you have one, even a breadcrumb of memory, then you can believe in magic. If you have the ability to allow yourself the belief that anything is possible, then you have the ability to shift your perspective.
I think we get so caught up because we've been traumatized and conditioned to be in fear that there is no wiggle room for options. And just to say that something that really helped me shift my perspective, and it's not bypassing and it's not wishful thinking, was learning about a practice called Timeline Jumping, where you shift your vibrational orbit because our existence is constantly forming and destroying and reforming and destroying. And our existence matches those vibrational frequencies that can shift our timeline. Does it mean we magically manifest a new life? No. But can we give ourselves permission to go, oh, you know what, I want to redo, I want to restart this experience? We can do that daily. You've been doing that as magic. So if you're left with anything from today, if anything that I've maybe shared has connected with you in any way, I hope that it is permission to get back to your magic, no matter how long it's been since you've believed or experienced it. Give yourself that little wiggle room, that little spark of light, especially during a dark time. Because there's plenty of darkness to look at. You know, and there's plenty of fake false light, blinding our eyes telling us to look this way. No look this way, no look this way. And then we're all like deer in headlights. Come back to your center your truth. Come back to your own healing. And give yourself permission just to believe a little bit in the things you can't see. Because then if you do that anything's possible
Ayana Young Beautiful. Thank you so much, Marcela, this has been such a tender conversation. And I really appreciate your vulnerability and care and time.
Marcella Kroll Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on your platform and for sharing it and I'm honored to be here with you today.
Francesca Glaspell Thank you for listening to For The Wild Podcast. For The Wild is created by Ayana Young, Allie Constantine, Erica Ekrem, Emily Guerra, Francesca Glaspell, Julia Jackson, and Priya Subberwal.