Transcript: K’ASHEECHTLAA - LOUISE BRADY on Restoring the Sacred /230
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Hello, and welcome to For The Wild Podcast. I'm Ayana Young, today I’m speaking with Louise Brady.
Louise Brady That relationship with money is so fleeting. I mean it's not even a real thing. Whereas our environment, the herring, the ocean, the whales, eagles, the ravens, that's what's real.
Ayana Young Louise Brady is a woman of the Tlingit nation in Sheetʼká Ḵwáan, an island off the coast of Southeast Alaska. She is Raven-Frog or Kiks.ádi Clan, Kiks.ádi women are known as the Herring ladies and have original instructions that connect them spiritually, culturally, and historically to herring. She is the founder of Herring Protectors, a grassroots movement of people that share concerns that the herring population in Sheetʼká Ḵwáan, and the culture tied to it, are under threat. Over the last three years, Herring Protectors have helped put on two Honor the Herring Koo.eex’ that honored the sacred relationship the Tlingit people have with the herring and the role they play in our way of life.
Well, Louise, thank you so much for joining us. I feel so indebted to your homelands, and it's a great honor to be speaking with you about this place that is so powerful and important. So I am very honored and very excited to be having this time with you.
Louise Brady Gunalchéesh Ayana, thank you very much for allowing me to be here today. We're getting really close to what we're going to talk about, herring time. So it's just really beautiful here today and we've had some snow and as one of my granddaughters would say it's like a winter wonderland.
Ayana Young Sounds so beautiful. Well, I'm wondering if you'd like to introduce yourself to our listeners?
Louise Brady K’asheechtlaa, wáa sá iyatee...My Tlingit name is K’asheechtlaa. I am Kiks.ádi, we use the frog as our crest. I am grandchild of the Kaagwaantaan, which is the wolf clan, and we Kiks.ádi women are known as the herring ladies.
Ayana Young Thank you so much for grounding us in that introduction. So Louise, you know many of us think of the Pacific Northwest as a place of abundance, however, for those who are not intimately acquainted with the ecosystem, they might not intuitively think of herring as such foundational kin that feeds everything from chinook, seals, birds, and whales, including endangered southern resident whales. To preface Herring Protectors, I wonder if you can speak to the extent that herring nourish North Pacific marine ecosystems, and how many will go hungry should they continue to be overfished by industry?
Louise Brady The herring are the foundation of our ecosystem here. We live right on the edge of the Pacific Ocean on an island. So we eat a lot of salmon, a lot of seafood, halibut. We originally had a food economy, which was basically based on the harvest season, and the food that we eat, as you mentioned, the salmon, the halibut, the seals, the whales, all depend on a healthy herring population. And one of the things that I noticed is that in other places around Southeast Alaska, where the herring populations have crashed, they have very small salmon comparatively speaking. So if we lose this herring population, and so many other places in Southeast Alaska and British Columbia the populations have crashed over the years, and I would say probably for the last 100 years that the herring have been fished near extinction. Of course, others may not agree with me. So it would be a matter of, we would not just lose the herring, we would lose so much of all of the other foods that we depend upon. And the herring eggs for us are very important, spiritually, culturally, and physically.
Ayana Young Well, I want to emphasize the respect and gratitude that has always been given to herring throughout Southeast Alaska outside of commercial fishing, and I think one of the ways this is done so beautifully is how herring eggs have been traditionally harvested through the placement of hemlock and cedar boughs in the water versus the violent and wasteful way that commercial industry collects eggs. Can you explain these two different approaches as an example of how industry is unable to be in relationship?
Louise Brady As Tlingit people we are taught to have respect, and in fact when I went to one of our grandmother's, I was in my early 20s, I really wanted to know what our culture was about and I thought she was going to sit me down and teach me everything, and she said, if there's one word, it's respect. And there is a phrase in Tlingit, it’s Yáa at Wooné, which is respect for all things. And it's not just for what we would consider moving things, but just everything and everyone we encounter. So when our harvesters go out to gather the herring eggs, they have to go into the forest, cut down a hemlock tree, some people cut down the branches, or cut the branches, but some cut down trees. And we give thanks to the tree for giving its life for our life so that we can live. And we go out and set the branches and the herring will come and lay their eggs on the branches. So we’re not killing any herring at all, so there’s respect involved. And then we bring the branches in, we share with family, and it's a really communal time. It's a time where we celebrate each other, and, you know, the return of spring, and the abundance of the herring, the abundance of this land and this water, that we were so blessed to be born on and born into this culture. And we realize that you know, we can't take any more than we need.
But with the fishing industry, it's completely different. It's actually really really violent. The sac roe is considered a delicacy in Japanese culture, and so the seiners, which is a type of fishing, have been coming here for herring, I would say at least since the 70s. And then when they fish for the herring or the sac roe, they don't use the herring. And nowadays, because of overfishing, sometimes it takes days for them to reach their quota, their set quota by the Department of Fish and Game, and they have to be a certain size and a certain weight. And if they don't get that, or they're not the correct size, they will catch them in the net, and then it's not the right size and they release them, well I was talking to one of our Tribal biologists and he said when they do that, if you were to have a camera under the water, you could see their scales floating to the ocean floor. And just like with us and our skin, our skin protects us, their scales protect them. And so that makes the herring susceptible to infection, and to illness. Also when they do a set, and again, if they don't need the size requirements, and they pull the net up out of the air, and you have all of these herring and you're crushing some of the herring and suffocating some of them and then they'll let them go. And even when they do find the right size ones, they take the sac roe out, and then they grind the herring up for dog food or to feed farmed salmon. It's such an incredible waste. And yes, it's violent.
Ayana Young Thank you so much for sharing those details. Yeah, just as industry encroached over Southeast Alaska, a dozen official herring management sites were developed to provide commercial harvest, as well as “subsistence herring egg harvest”, and I understand that currently 11 of these have been overfished to near extinction with the Sitka Sac Roe Fishery being the last site to provide any sort of noticeable harvest. How have these fisheries been chronically mismanaged and why has the state of Alaska allowed this to happen continuously across so many different historical herring fisheries?
Louise Brady That's a really good question. I first testified before the Board of Fish, so the state of Alaska oversees fisheries, and the Board of Fish, the Board of Fisheries is a board of nine people that I guess, sit and listen to testimony from the public about the fisheries. And the Sitka Tribe of Alaska has been going before the board, at least for 25 years, I would say more like 30 to 35 years, and a lot of the people who testify are basically the fisherman, the people who have the permits to fish the herring, and the state Board of Fish listens to their biologists. And the state biologists have a specific formula that they use to calculate the number of herring that are in the area.
One of the things that has, we believe, has happened is that the baseline that's being used is already a depleted baseline, the baseline only goes back to the 70s. Whereas our oral histories go back, at least hundreds of years. So with an already depleted population, the Department of Fish and Game came and said, “Okay.” You know, they set a 20% limit for the fishermen. This year, the guideline harvest level is 33,000 tonnes. And what we've been seeing happening here, as I remember, back in, probably going back to the 80s and 90s, there were maybe 51-52, somewhere around there, fishermen who would come in, and the Department of Fish and Game would come in and they would open the fishery, and sometimes the fishermen would get their quota in an hour. Now, sometimes it takes weeks, and it's because the fishery is depleted. And the state comes back with “Well, no herring move around.” I mean, there’s always a reason to move forward with the fishery, I guess that’s the bottom line.
Two years ago, there was a fishery and I believe that they got maybe 1/3 of the allocated tonnage, and last year, there wasn’t even a fishery. And I will tell you, last year was the first time in many, many years, so many of us noticed, we could smell the herring in town, because the herring have gone offshore. And it was so nice. And we saw the whole Sitka sound used to turn this beautiful, beautiful turquoise, we call it Mediterranean blue because there were so many herring here. But I think so much of it just that depleted baseline. And the science that is really inaccurate.
Ayana Young Yeah, it's such an important point to talk about shifting baselines. And when the baseline is from the 70s, you know, and then management is based on a time after colonization, after commercial resource extraction had already started, it's not, it's not accurate, and how could it be? And then all of the impacts that has when you're managing a fishery, or land, based on an incorrect baseline, or problematic baseline, so I really appreciate you sharing that because I think that's nuance and a particularity that many of us probably don't even consider. And so when we're questioning extinction crises, it's really important to take in all this information. So thank you.
Louise Brady Yes. And I don't know if you went to Sitka National Historical Park when you were here?
Ayana Young I did. Yeah.
Louise Brady Oh, one of the Elders, who has since passed, he would say, the flats, you know the beach flats go really far out, and when the herring were in when he was a child, he said that you could just stick a paddle in the water and it would stand up by itself because the herring eggs were so thick. And friends of mine in the 70s would say that they wouldn't even have to go fishing to catch herring, they would just take the bucket down to the beach ponds or in the footbridge and just stick a bucket in the water and pull it up and it would be full of herring. And so it’s happening quickly I would say.
Ayana Young
Now, this is less of a question and more of an observation, but one of our greatest problems with globalization seems to be the loss of reverence that takes place as something becomes more and more accessible, and I think I was referencing this a bit earlier with the abundance of choices we now have versus the actual abundance of place because herring is currently used in so many different ways; it’s in pet food and fertilizer, used in fish meal for aquariums and salmon farms, and is also sold as a delicacy in Japan because Japan has already depleted their own herring source, and I wonder if you could speak to the absurdity of herring being murdered en masse to ultimately feed farmed salmon when many ecosystems across the Pacific Northwest are severely struggling because wild salmon and whales don’t even have enough to eat? Or perhaps just personally what comes up for you thinking about this global disrespect that is taking place and the sort of spiritual ramification of it?
Louise Brady I really believe that that's at the heart of this because Tlingit culture in many- Well I’ll just speak to Tlingit culture because that’s what I come from, it’s based on relationships. And as I said, that phrase, Yáa at Wooné, respect for things. That means for each other, and for every, you know, for the herring, and we, as a community, have been going to the Board of Fish and trying to explain how important herring are to us, before the Board of Fish. And when I testified in 1997, it’s a very sterile environment, you know, there are nine people sitting at tables with microphones and papers and staff and everybody's, you know behind the line and you can't go past that line to talk to them, any of the board members unless you have permission, and you have to sign up to testify, and when you do testify, you get three minutes. And we are orators, and in order for us to speak in public in our own culture, we need to introduce ourselves and tell people how we're related to them because that tells them that we know them. And, you know, the first time I saw the Board, I was very upset because we had asked Elders to go and testify, and they were barely through with their introductions and their time's up. And our Chairman is like, “Okay, I'm sorry, your time is up, your time is up”, and they wouldn't give them any more time. And we have been doing that for 25 years.
And when we thought about that, I had been working with some friends on another project, and we decided we wanted to do some work locally, basically grassroots work. And so we decided to work on herring. And I had this idea that because I introduced myself as a herring lady - we have a very old old story, probably an ancient story about the herring rock here in Sitka. There was a young lady who, this time of year in March, it's like some days it's really, really beautiful. But most people in March in the old days, are getting ready to go out hunting, to go fishing, just getting ready to be outside as the weather is going to get so much better. There was this one young lady though, she wasn't helping anybody, she would just go down to the beach and sit there. And a lot of the people from the village just thought that she was just being lazy that she didn't want to help anyone. And so, you know, they were getting really upset with her. But what she had been doing is she was going down to this specific rock channel by the village, and she was singing to the herring. And one day there was a nice, beautiful, gloriously sunny day. You could see out to the Pacific Ocean, and the islands and the ocean was just blue, and it was nice and warm. And she fell asleep. It was low tide. This one fell asleep on that rock and then the tide was coming in. She was sleeping. And when she woke up the tide was high and the herring had laid eggs in her hair. And that's because they acknowledged her invitation to come back to Sheetʼká Ḵwáan. And so that's when the story of the herring rock was born. And so it said in all of Southeast Alaska, that is where the herring turn to first, the herring rock, Yaaw T'eiyí. And some people may think those stories are legends. I prefer to call them our original instruction from creator, from whatever you want to call the higher being that connects us all.
And as I was thinking, I thought we should have a ceremony to honor the herring, and it really hadn't been done. And I talked to our Elders, I talked to our clan leader, I talked to other local Elders and told them that this was what I wanted to do. And they said, “Yes, that would be really good.” And so we had our first Herring Koo.eex’ and as we were moving through it, preparing for the ceremony, you know we make a lot of gifts, there was weaving, and there was crocheting, and there was drum making, and some people made paddles, to give to our guests our invited guests - and it was a really powerful way to cement those relationships with each other, to come together and to make things because also in our culture, I'm also a Ravenstail weaver and my mentor Teri Rofkar would tell me “whatever is in your heart comes out in your hands.” So we always really need to be careful about how you approach, whoever it is we're making, whatever it is we're saying, we always need to have a good heart.
We opened the ceremony the entire town of Sitka, Sheetʼká Ḵwáan, and here we have maybe 16% maybe 20% Alaska Native, Tlingit, and I think that was the first time the ceremony was opened up and for me, it was really beautiful. Some of those same Elders who spoke for that three minutes at the Board of Fish, were able to get up at the ceremony and talk about their relationship, our relationship as a Tlingit people to the herring, and could talk about, you know, “I would go out here when I was a young person and the herring were plentiful, and we’d go out here and the herring were plentiful”, and we have four members of the Board of Fish come and you know people just talked, and we were able to come together and celebrate our relationships with the herring, and it is spiritual. Spiritual, historical, cultural, emotional, it's like every part of our being. And when we tell these stories, or our history, Western science, the fishermen, they say, “Yeah, but those are just stories. Where's your data?” And I was in a meeting with one of the permit holders, and a friend of mine had done some research, and he was talking about how plentiful the herring were and he had some really good information. And this permit holder got up and said, “Yeah, but how are we going to pay our rent? How are we going to make money?” And my response was,
“That's what you don't understand, that has nothing to do with money for us.” And I really believe that a lot of people have forgotten how to have any kind of relationship, much less healthy relationships with the environment, and with each other. And I really hope that we can make a change with the herring, but I do know that we’ve made a change with each other because there are so many more people working together.
And for me, that's what needs to happen. That's what I believe, is that we need to figure out what it is we love, and then work together. Because that relationship with money is so fleeting. I mean, it's not, it's not a real thing. Whereas our environment, the herring, the ocean, the whales, eagles, the ravens, the land, that's what's real. And I have to say, you know, so far it's been an amazing journey, working together and I am continuing to learn so much about myself. And I have to say, I'm just so grateful for everyone who's coming along on this journey because it's pretty incredible.
Ayana Young Wow. So moving. Yeah, I'm just catching my, my heart for a moment. But in the Herring Protectors film Yáa at Wooné, you talk about the joy of the harvest, and how climate change and extractive industry are stripping away at place-based joy. And, we often hear folks talk about how we are living in this critical time where we need to be experiencing joy as a part of our activism, but so often that joy and pleasure is outsourced to behaviors that are threatening the Earth, so I’d like to bring in the topic of joy in context to Herring Protectors, and I wonder if you could share what this means for you?
Louise Brady I have to say, so in my personal life, I really, there is still a lot of segregation that goes on in this community. And I would imagine in a lot of communities, and the people that I ended up working with are probably people that I really would not have worked with previously. And that's just because you know, I am Tlingit, I’m from here, I have a dance group, almost my entire family lives here which is 30 to 40 of us nieces, nephews, sisters, and grandchildren. And the way that we were working, we actually started working on Standing Rock which was going on that summer, and people were going around town saying “we should do something for Standing Rock”, everybody kept saying that to each other. And so finally I said “Okay, we’re going to do something. And so we had a gathering to support Standing Rock, and there were probably 150-200 people, and we sang some songs and had a couple of people who were Lakota that spoke and had been down there. And it was all fine and well, and then after that, somebody was like “We should do a fundraiser, we should do a fundraiser” and I was like “Okay we’ll do a fundraiser.” And you know in the Native community, we probably would have done something like clam chowder sale and fry bread. And I had a friend that knew this other group of people, and they wanted to do a fundraiser for Standing Rock, so we met and his group wanted to do yoga for Standing Rock, and I’m like, “Okay, that's interesting” and I was just kind of laughing to myself. I mean, I had never done yoga. Again, this is part of, you know, not a lot of people, my friends, do yoga. But we went ahead, and we did this fundraiser together. And it was really good, because, you know, there were Indigenous people, non-Indigenous people, everybody had a sense that it was a really tumultuous time of, you know, wanting to come together and do something good. And so we raised maybe $8,000 and collected for additional food. So we became so close and ended up you know really enjoying being together.
So we had another meeting and we decided, you know, we wanted to work together and so we decided to work on the herring. And we didn't know what we were going to do and then I suggested the Koo.eex’, and so we started meeting and having potlucks and, you know, people learned how to weave and we brought in Elders and culture bearers and we had a lot of fun. And we worked really, really hard. I mean, the Koo.eex’ that we ended up having, the first one, we had to move it up by a month and it was like January right after the holidays. And so we didn't get the word that it was moved up a month until just before Christmas. And so it was a lot of work. You know, we all had other jobs and we worked on it every evening making gifts and we got it together and that was a big deal because there were like 300 people at the ceremony, and if people get a chance to take a look at the film and the ceremony, you can see the joy on everybody’s face, tt's just amazing.
And again, it's like, you know what, what is activism? You know, activism is making coffee, it's serving Elders, it's cooking, it's, you know, it's getting to know each other in a very deep way to develop that trust so that we can have joy. And that is part of our culture as well. So many times, we have the ceremonies and they're around death, like, we had a ceremony for my mother and my sister who passed away. And the first part is always the mourning. And we have it anywhere from a year to two or three years, however long it takes us to gather the gifts and the first part is always the mourning, and we sing our mourning or cry song. And our culture is structured in such a way that our guests are basically there to wipe our tears ceremonially. And when we dance, to their cry songs, that's our last cry, and then we go into the happy part. And I think that you know, I think that people again, especially it’s difficult during, during COVID, I think we have forgotten, forgotten how to do so many things, as a community. And that includes you know, how to celebrate - how to celebrate our successes, and that has to be, that just really has to be a part of what we do if we call ourselves activists or, you know, I don't think I'm an activist. I'm not sure what I am. But joy is absolutely a must, it is absolutely a must. Because why else would? Why would creator give such a beautiful, beautiful place, if not to enjoy it. And I feel bad for people who live here and you know, can't go out every day and just see the beauty, and celebrate and the magic of being here.
Ayana Young Thank you for that reminder that seems so simple, but also so challenging. And these times and I think we need to keep reminding each other, just holding that gratitude for the magic, and finding the beauty and allowing that beauty and that magic to sustain us, to keep challenging these dominant systems that we know we need to push out. And yeah, and I'd like to move into a conversation around whether or not certain institutions will ever be compatible with the sort of respect that is so desperately needed, and in context to herring, what I’m really thinking about is whether or not an institution like the Alaska Board of Fish is equipped to understand the depth of relationship and connection to herring. I think about my time in Alaska and going to various public comment meetings related to the Tongass, where people were given a few minutes to make their statements, and you know you were talking about this earlier and how those sort of limitations will never allow meaningful conversation, you cannot change someone’s opinion in 3 minutes or even really get into any important details in that time. So, do you think it is time for folks to really begin thinking about how these regulatory bodies can be ushered out before they allow permanent damage?
Louise Brady Definitely. And, you know, I'm not really sure how to do that, if there was, you know, more local control, that's like, let's take a look at, you know, how many people come in here, to Alaska, you know, for the oil industry, for the mining industry, for forestry, and where, where all of these, you know, so-called resources going? Now if people don't understand our culture, and the place, right? Place-based knowledge. It's very one-dimensional. And that is, for me, I believe the basis of resource extraction. And it breaks my heart, I was working on a project down on Prince of Wales Island, just south of here, and I was driving all over Prince of Wales with a friend of mine, and it's awful, what has been done to that island, there's clear cut after clear cut after clear cut, and I cannot imagine that happening here. And I think that it's going to take everyone to invest - this is that this is the last temperate rainforest of its size anywhere. And I really hope that people can get to know what that means, more people, I think it's going to take everybody coming together and saying, “You know, this is a treasure. This is an incredibly beautiful place to live, and work, and to visit.”
And, you know, after those four fish members came to the Koo.eex’, the entire board except for one voted for all the proposals that we wanted them to vote against. And the one person that voted against was from the interior, he was Athabaskan, he was Indigenous, and he’s not on the board anymore. And I'm not sure how we get that to be a fair process. I think it comes down to, for me, sovereignty, tribal sovereignty, a lot of people might not be familiar with that. But, you know, tribes in the United States have a government-to-government relationship with the federal government, because of all of the land and resources that were taken. And we don't have that with the State. And do have some with our local governments here, which is, you know, we’re still finding our way. But unless Western institutions in general, can come to a point of understanding that Indigenous knowledge is valuable and that Indigenous people are not the only ones that need to learn Western ways of being and Western values, but that Western society needs us and needs to understand our way of being in a place, those changes are going to be really difficult. And I do see some places, like at the university level, moving in that direction, and I really hope that people, you know, if people don’t understand what sovereignty is, please, you know, read about it. And if you don't know whose Indigenous land you're on, find out and reach out, reach out to people.
Ayana Young Yeah, it’s so important for those of us who aren't involved, aren't knowledgeable, to get involved, and learn and read, and ask questions in a respectful way and engage in the process. We do need all hands on deck. And for us to come together and build relationship, we need to have a foundation of understanding and really the patience and the time commitment to keep showing up in, you know, in a way that has longevity, and yeah, that deep commitment. So, I appreciate that reminder as well. And I'm sure those of us listening in the audience, that call, that calling in, for us to hear that is so important. I think we also need to continually be calling each other into the work. Yeah, so I really appreciate that.
And now since 2002, the Sitka Tribe of Alaska has been appealing to the Board of Fish with various different proposals to protect the herring population, and I mention this because it’s been nearly 2 decades of working to protect the herring, and this timeline brings up a question for me on relationship, especially in a place like Alaska where the communities are small and there is a real necessity of maintaining relationships alongside organizing and campaigning. I wonder if you can speak to how this work really involves working to instill responsibility and relationship throughout the community through ceremony, like the Herring Koo.éex’, and the importance of working to build allyship outside of one’s own circle?
Louise Brady That's one thing that is really good is it is a small community. And I think our reach can be so impactful, opening up the Koo.éex’ to people I think, was part of a turning point, I think that we're having here in Sheetʼká Ḵwáan. I actually think it’s pretty amazing we’ve been able to be very visible around some of these issues. And the second year that we had the Koo.éex’, it was, again, open to people. And we actually had a symbolic canoe journey from about seven miles north of Sitka to downtown Sitka And then we had a parade and again, everybody was invited. And we actually invited people to come and learn how to do beadwork, and how to, you know, carve a paddle, and how to make drums and how to weave, and all of those things - I don't think you know, we made regular announcements, and we reached out to people. And I think in a lot of ways that was a first, and the place that we had it was so crowded, there were so many people. And those of us who were working there were like “We have never seen this many local people here”, and for the parade, as well.
And the Koo.éex’ that we had done at the Alaska Native Brotherhood Hall, which has been mainly for Native functions, was full and you know we had people asking us what they could do and how they could contribute, and it’s amazing how many people, even the non-Indigenous folks had no idea we were still having ceremonies, they had no idea how important herring eggs were to us. So it's been, I think, a great learning exchange. And so we are working on other issues. I think, especially with the turmoil that we've had around race, we've been able to do some things. Like we had a statue of Baranof, who was as Russian who came here, and it was in front of where we hold the city meetings, and we had a really pretty large group of supporters who said, “You know, that isn’t right because he was very destructive and violent with Alaska Natives, and so we had a lot of supporters, starting to get more supporters in city government, and we support them as well. And again, it's just, it's saying, we want to be inclusive and for me a part of it is that you know my culture, I believe, is just so beautiful, and that reciprocity and the healing that happens, that comes about when we gather as a community is amazing. And that’s how we get to know each other.
You know everybody, I think has had collaborative projects, where we sit together at the table and try to decide what to do. But it's the differences that, you know, it's not a meeting, it's coming together to celebrate each other, and to give each other the time and the space to do that. And I think it has been really impactful. And we have had, you know, more and more people wanting to come to the Koo.éex’ because I think people are hungry to learn, people do want to learn, there are so many people that are open right now to you know, extending that hand and reaching for that hand, and you know saying let’s do this together, let’s learn how we can be a part of a community.
Ayana Young That's so beautiful and inspirational, and I’m like “Yes, okay we can do this.
Louise Brady So you’ll come to the next one?
Ayana Young Yes. I want to be there. And I'm thinking about how to make that happen. And yeah, I also want to mention, earlier this year, the Sitka Tribe of Alaska won another round of its legal fight over the state’s mismanagement of herring, and I wonder if you could share where you are now, what listeners can do to support, especially if listeners are not from Alaska, and what’s next?
Louise Brady So the Sitka Tribe of Alaska filed a lawsuit, I think it was the end of 2019, after this, you know, 25 years of going to the Board of Fish. So there are three parts to the lawsuit, and the last ruling came out on November 30, 2020, where a judge ruled that the Alaska Department of Fish and Game failed to follow regulations requiring it to meaningfully consider the quality and quantity of herring spawn on the branches when managing the commercial herring fishery in Sitka Sound.
So the Alaska Department of Fish and Game under their management is supposed to be able to manage the fishery, so that we, as Indigenous people, have the opportunity to go out and get, you know, herring eggs, good quality herring eggs. And, you know, I and I don't even know how to describe it. Again, if you watch the video, I mean, there was a time when you laid the branches out, and you can get like an inch thick of herring eggs on that. And that's, you know, the quality that people were used to for a long time. And for the last 10 years, it's hit or miss. And when we would tell the manager that, there was no response, airgo the Board of Fish, that was why the lawsuit was filed, so that was the latest win.
But we don't know how that's going to be enforced. So we're just waiting. And then in March of last year, the judge ruled that ADF and G had failed to make required determinations regarding whether there is a reasonable opportunity for subsistence harvesters when managing the commercial fishery. Now, again, that goes back to you know, we haven't been able to get the herring eggs that we needed. And so now we are waiting for what could be the final ruling, but we're not sure, from the judge. And I'm not sure when we'll have a ruling on that. But if the judge rules against the Tribe, then there will be a trial in June and as people know, the Secretary of Alaska had to hire a law firm out of Anchorage that has handled what is called ‘subsistence cases’, it's really hard to say some of these things without going into an explanation to people of what they are. But basically, subsistence is traditional harvesting, whether it's herring eggs, or red salmon, you know under Alaska state laws people are allowed to do that, but specifically for us, subsistence herring eggs are the factor.
So the way that people can support is, there is more information on our Facebook page, which is called the Herring Protectors, or you can support the Sitka Tribe of Alaska by sending funds to help with the lawsuit, and you can get that on the Sitka Tribe of Alaska website or Facebook page.
And you know, I think overall too, I'm not sure how it would affect what we're doing. But every year there's an opportunity to submit written testimony to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. But of course, that's mainly for Alaska citizens. But in general, yeah, just contact us. We invite you, you can come to the Koo.éex’, we're not having - we're having a smaller celebration this year, next month. And I think to really learn more about Indigenous people and Indigenous rights, there is the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Peoples and Declaration of Human Rights. And the way that the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, and the state of Alaska, have been mismanaging the fisheries is in direct violation of many of the clauses in that and I think as people become more educated, we're more likely to take action. So contact us.
Ayana Young I agree with that. And yes, please do. And I will keep in touch and find ways that For The Wild can support and yeah, and also in our show notes, and through social media, for all of you who are listening, we'll put up links on the website and such so you can find all this information easily.
Well, Louise, thank you so much for this time. Like I said at the beginning, I felt honored then and I feel so blessed to have been able to hear the depth of your heart, of your knowing of this land and of yourself and in what we need to do moving forward. So thank you so much for your time and your devotion
Louise Brady Gunalchéesh Ayana, and thank you for everything that you do.
Francesca Glaspell Thank you for listening to another episode of For The Wild Podcast. The music you heard today was “Wolf Creek” by Lake Mary, “Awake Before Dawn” by The Ascent of Everest, “Life Givers” by Alexandra Blakely, and “Old Pine Tree” by Fountainsun. For The Wild is created by Ayana Young, Erica Ekrem, and Francesca Glaspell, with special research assistance by Julia Jackson.