Ayana Young Hello and welcome to For The Wild Podcast. I'm Ayana Young. Today I'm speaking with Morgan Curtis.

Morgan Curtis That's not about casting out my ancestors or punishing them for sin. It's about recognizing that we can only really heal when we've put right that which we've done wrong.

Ayana Young Guided by the call to transmute the legacy of her colonizing and enslaving ancestors, Morgan is dedicated to working with her fellow people with wealth and class privilege towards redistribution, atonement, and repair. As a facilitator, money coach, organizer and ritualist, she works to catalyze the healing of relationships with self, family, ancestors, community, and the land, enabling the surrender of power and control so that resources can flow towards racial, environmental, and economic justice. She is in the process of redistributing 100% of her inherited wealth and 50% of her income to primarily Black- and Indigenous-led organizing and land projects. Morgan is a resident of Canticle Farm, a multi-racial, inter-faith, cross-class, intergenerational intentional community in Lisjan Ohlone territory (Oakland, CA). She is currently a graduate student at Harvard Divinity School, where she is studying the spiritual dimension of the reparations work required of white people. Well, Morgan, welcome. This is such a sweet moment to share with you being deep friends and, gosh, comrades for so many years. I'm really looking forward to sharing this conversation with others, and your work, and my admiration for you.

Morgan Curtis It's mutual. Thank you so much, Ayana, it's good to connect, and be here and get to weave together.

Ayana Young Yes, yes, yes. Gosh, there's so much to say and to ask and to dive into. But I think I want to start with discussing the spiritual imperative of the work that you're doing. And I'm wanting to ask, how did you come to your work? And what guiding voices are you listening to as you continue on this journey?

Morgan Curtis Thank you. How did I come to this work? How did this work come to me? I was a young person who had my heart broken open by the world. I was like 10 years old, going around hiding the light bulbs in my parents' home being so upset about climate change, and what was happening to our Earth. I grew up from there, and when I was a college student, I was part of starting a fossil fuel divestment campaign and it was in that campaign that I got educated by my peers, fellow students, mostly those of color around the deeper roots of the climate crisis, what I had been able to feel in my body since I was a young person I began to understand as rooted in white supremacy and colonization and legacies that were perpetrated by my own ancestors. I was raised in a family that had portraits of our ancestors hanging on the wall and family silver under the stairs taken out on special occasions and stories of our early American history as something to be proud of. And so when I began to get taught, like, it was clear to me, oh, when we're talking about colonialism, that's my family. That's my ancestors who made those choices. When we're talking about capitalism. I have two investment bankers for grandfathers, that's my family too. And so, I would say the voices I was listening to was, firstly and primarily the Earth and the call for radical change and then the voices of initially friends, peers, fellow students of color, and as time went on, mentors and elders, particularly Black and Indigenous folks, who stuck with me long enough to educate me and opened my eyes to my entangled history with our current moment.

Ayana Young Thanks for opening up the conversation that way and being transparent about your personal story, which I know can be challenging, but I really appreciate the work that you do to demystify yourself to others. I think there's a lot of power and beauty and healing in that. And I want to kind of get into more of this generational trauma and even talk about sin a bit and in Weather Reports: The Climate of Relationships and Intersectionality with Terry Tempest Williams and brontë velez, two of our favorite guests so far, you talk a lot about the idea of atonement alongside a deep contemplation of the founding sins of this country and I'm wondering, how does the framework of sin and atonement structure the way you grapple with such intense questions, especially across generations?

Morgan Curtis When I hear the word sin, the first voice that comes to mind is always my father, he would say, "Morgan, stop searching for sin in our family tree." I can see how he reacted that way to some of my first searching and uncovering and looking for this history in my family and I think that I wasn't so much searching for sin as like, desperately trying to understand how to locate myself in history in our present crises and as I looked for those ancestors, what I understood was, yes, my complicity, yes, my responsibility for repair, I could see the mistakes that they made, I could see the places where ancestors made choices where I could wish they made any other choice than the one they did, and it was tempting for a while to want to push them away, to want to pretend that they weren't my people, and those weren't my stories to do the sort of vanishing that I think whiteness can do in the United States, of I can just disappear into a generic story and not take a particular responsibility. And how I've come to see it is the work that I'm doing towards reparations, towards atonement, towards the redistribution of land, money, power from white folks who have violently hoarded it and back towards the communities stolen from, is that that's not about casting out my ancestors or punishing them for sin. It's about recognizing that we can only really heal when we've put right, that which we've done wrong. It's about bringing what could be understood as a framework of intergenerational restorative justice. What is it to pick up that which has not been finished in my ancestral story, that has not yet earned back and taken responsibility for. So I experience myself as on their side in that work to not have our family's only legacy be one of violence, inequality, or injustice.

Ayana Young I'm reminded of the episode with brontë on the Pleasurable Surrender of White Supremacy, that I know you and I have talked about a bit and when I think about this healing that you're doing for your lineage, it is healing, there's joy, and there's release and surrender and like, it's almost like releasing the bricks off the shoulders of these ancestors, at least how I'm feeling it as you speak, that the healing touches everyone, in the past, in the future. There's something to it that feels really, I mean, especially hearing it through you that does feel uplifting and joyful. It's not some loss to let go, or give away, wealth, power, money, story. I mean, it's not that there's no grief, but it's not a net loss, which I think this culture really tries to tell us that if we give too much away, we have nothing left for ourselves and of course, we could dissect that in a lot of different ways. But I feel like through you, I'm hearing like a pleasurable surrender of it. And yeah.

Morgan Curtis Thank you for that, and thank you, brontë for that framing and yeah, the greatest grief of my life has been letting in, actually letting my heart break when I see what my ancestors did, which includes enslaving other human beings of both African and Native descent, which includes participating in genocidal wars, which includes, the taking and theft of land and life. And, as I do this work of turning towards that history, and getting to be part of, in some small way, the first steps of healing and repairing those legacies, that has been the greatest joy of my life. Yeah, the moments where I get to witness small parts of possibility that we can stand for something else other than violence in my family and my people, and that people who have had their dreams denied and stolen can begin to dream again. Like, there's nothing more I could want from this lifetime than to be part of that, part and part of that moment. So yeah, it's the best.

Ayana Young In your letter to your descendants that you title, "Post-pandemic, Post-revolution", you write, "Don't get me wrong, there is love in our story, but a forgetfulness of what it is for. To commit oneself to a place and people, to remember our belonging in the family of things." I'm thinking about this quote, in terms of how does finding right relationship involve healing both generational ties and ties to place?

Morgan Curtis Yeah, great question. I would say that, for me, the foundation of my ability to do this work is living in community. I have great and immense privilege to live in intentional community where I've been for the last, this is my eighth year now, and living a commitment to place and living a commitment to that place's people and what comes from commitment, the mirrors, the reflection, the accountability, the feedback that both Earth and people offer us when we stay long enough in committed relationship. I couldn't do this without that. And I know it will take generations for my lineage to know what it means to be in right relationship with place again, after having left our ancestral homelands and stolen those of others and practiced extraction and private property upon them ever since. I know it's going to take a long time to undo those things in my body and the bodies of my descendants. And I hope that I'm beginning that process.

Ayana Young Yeah, I guess I'm also thinking about the roles of shame and guilt. And there's another quote that I wanted to read from you in your Ancestors and Money Resource Library and you write, "I support people to work through their fears, doubts, worries, stuck places, loneliness, guilt, and shame, disrupting patterns of avoidance, accumulation, hiding and concealing, and work to create a space where they can take transformative action beyond what they previously thought possible." And I know personally, guilt and shame were, gosh, like leading actors in my life for a long time and they've guided me to, in a lot of ways do the work that I do. And there was beauty there. And I'm, in a sense, grateful that I felt anything honestly, because so much of the dominant culture is the desensitization of our feelings, both ups and downs. And our feelings are, in a sense, controlled by advertisements, and media and schooling, and so on, and so forth, and unhealthy family structures and so I'm grateful for the shame and guilt. And then there was also a time where I realized that these leading actors needed to take a step back, and there needed to be new guiding forces in my life and so what roles are shame and guilt playing in this narrative, but also how do we work through shame and guilt without letting it continually consume us?

Morgan Curtis I start from with this, that guilt and shame are natural, empathic, human responses to benefiting from injustice, as you said, like, oh, to feel something, to feel something in a world that is painfully wrong and to be on the side of that wrongness in such a way that's giving us perhaps, material comfort, perhaps, some semblance of safety for however long, but ultimately, is hurting others along the way. If we're not feeling something about that, that's the first step is to figure out to listen for, to notice where our heart is able to open and to lean into that and to let it shake us. And it's also not the destination. I think, shame and guilt points us somewhere, it takes us somewhere, like you said, it can bring us to work that's ours to do, it can bring us to responsibilities that are ours to take, but it won't sustain them. It doesn't have an energy that carries us through the challenges we inevitably face when we make different choices than the ones that dominant culture or our families are wanting us to make. And so I think what more deeply sustains us is that which we are called to, that which we are longing for. And it's from that place of looking out of and to the horizon of what do I really want for this one, wild and precious life, as Mary Oliver says, what do I want for my people, for all people, for this Earth? And how can I let that longing move through me? I'm gonna give thanks to my friend Justine Epstein and her essay on longing for guiding a lot of my thinking on this.

Ayana Young Yeah, I want to talk about giving thanks more and I also kind of want to balance that or not balance isn't the right word, but maybe what keeps us from the practice of gratitude, which to me, can be this never ending search for security, because the scarcity mindset that capitalism offers us really encourages anxiety and I think it also encourages hoarding, and lack of mutual aid, community. It completely shifts our value system of what we value. and that's also what we value as security, and so, I wonder, with this scarcity mindset for the never ending search for security, and then on the other side, you know, maybe the antidote is cultivating a practice of gratitude. Not the only antidote, but  I've read that a lot in your work, just being grateful, and not being grateful for where we are told gratitude should come from either, because I think there's, you know, I don't know, I just had this thought about the prosperity gospel popping into my head and it's a really shallow way to be thankful if it's just about wealth accumulation, obviously, or buying things or being able to have whatever we want, whenever you want it. And so, yeah, I'm wondering if you can kind of tussle with that, the neverending search for security and the practice of gratitude.

Morgan Curtis Yeah, I love that you're bringing this in. So along my own journey of figuring out how to redistribute my inherited wealth in a spirit of repair towards healing, I was increasingly finding people who were like, coming up to me in the hallway and in social movement spaces and saying, like, "Me too, like I, I secretly have this money, and I feel alone in it." And so about five years ago, I started offering one-on-one support to people in a more structured way and I remember it was my, my first session with my first client, collaborator, and I was nervous, and I got on and the first thing I said was, "Well, we're going to begin with gratitude, because gratitude is the most accessible antidote capitalism that we have." And I've repeated that practice on every call I've ever had with anyone ever since and I believe it really deeply. Just to sit with the miracle that it is to breathe, to drink water, to see the sun come up each day, to sit with like that I get to be alive today, when so many others don't, that I get to be in whatever wellness I have today, when so many others don't. What a privilege. Gratitude as an antidote, and as a foundation.  About safety, about security, about scarcity, I think it's totally reasonable for any of us having been raised in a dominant capitalist culture to think that safety comes from money, because in some ways, it does, in some ways, it can help us have a roof over our heads, food to eat, it can have those material consequences for so many, and we are on a planet that is shifting rapidly. We are in societies that are not yet able to govern themselves, amidst intense and painful legacies of repression. And ultimately, there is no separate safety. And even if there is, it looks like being behind a spiky metal fence, far from anyone else with hoarded food in a basement with a private rocket ship ready to leave with armored cars ready to take us to our hideout, like the the final expression of what it is to rely on money as our source of safety is a terrifying one. And if that's not where we want to go, how do we practice other forms of safety here and now? How do we practice relying on one another? How do we practice being reliable? I think for a lot of people with wealth, we grew up, we were accustomed to using the capitalist marketplace to meet our needs through the commodification of most forms of labor to support our lives. So what is it to remember how to support one another out of love? How to show up for one another, in a spirit of gift and a spirit of reciprocity. And it can look so simple, like, I'm going to pick someone up from the airport so they don't have to call an Uber, or I'm going to pick up their groceries for them. So they don't have to use Instacart. Or I'm going to ask for those things from others. It starts small, but it's, I think, one of the most fundamental shifts that are required for those of us who've been accustomed to having way too much.

Ayana Young I would love to think about how to move beyond language with reparations, because I think that, yeah, it's interesting, just thinking about how social change happens, and how we move through these epiphanies or changes in our understanding of the world. And there's a way in which we can, like, for instance, land back or reparations, these big words that encompass so much. It's like, wow, okay, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. But how? You know, how do people take concrete actions when practicing reparations, and I know you've been practiced and studying this, and I think it's really helpful for us to hear what it can look like. And, also just to say, up to your last response thinking about driving away in our armored cars, or whatever that people use to their bunkers and whatnot, I have some friends who are really apocalyptic and I really was at a point too, and then something shifted in me where I thought, is that how I want to survive? Like, do I want to survive with so much fear, knowing that all that I love both plant, animal, human, kin are out there somewhere separate from me, suffering? I know, we have a human instinct to survive. We're animals, and I can understand that, but at what cost? I don't know, I really had to have a reckoning with myself and my apocalyptic story of my journey of how do you know for me, stand where I love and fight like hell, you know, stop running, whether that's running from like, the metaphor, or the psychological pain, or running from actual disasters, like natural disasters or things like that. There's I think, I think that's also where the spiritual reckoning comes into play where this is really more of a spiritual question than it is just tangible, physical, logistical. Yeah, I guess, you know, again, like thinking about the logistical question is like, logistically, how, how do we practice reparations? How do we practice mutual aid? How do we practice this world outside of selfishness?

Morgan Curtis Big beautiful question. I mean, I'll speak to a little bit of the material first and then the spiritual, knowing that they can't really be separated. Yeah, as long as people have been enslaved on this continent, there have been calls for reparations and as long as there have been European colonists on this continent there have been calls for land return, and we're in a moment, an extended moment, a generational moment where I think some of us are starting to maybe learn how to listen to those calls a little bit and it is a big thing to think about how change happens. And I think it's important when we're talking about reparations and land return, this is what I've been invited to hold as it needs to happen at a governmental institutional scale, like the U.S. government and other governments need to make repair at a scale that only governments can. And how do we not wait for that to happen? Or how do we remember that governments follow the people, and that it's only from movements rising up from the grassroots that change can happen at the governmental level. And we see that movement rising up right now, at small scales. Even when a national, federal, or international conversation can look so regressive, we see towns and cities and institutions and individuals beginning to make acts of repair and in my journey, what that has looked like is choosing to redistribute the $600,000 that I inherited towards, Black and Indigenous led land projects and social movements.  Sometimes we talk about it in an organization I'm part of, Resource Generation, which organizes young people with wealth and class privilege towards the redistribution of money, land, and power, we talk about it as how do we voluntarily redistribute resources to fund the movement for involuntary redistribution at the scale of reparations and land return. And I've learned so much through that process of moving those resources. And one thing I'll speak to is, it's been clear to me all along that I need to practice redistributing our, wherever possible, over where those resources end up, because the ways that I've been acculturated and raised up has a white person through elite education, has me really not able to see what is most needed right now, so some of the resources I've moved have been through things like Liberated Capital or Movement for Black Lives, or Haymarket People's Fund, entities where movement leaders are making decisions about where resources need to move in their own communities, and at the same time, if that's the only way I move resources, I'm letting myself off the hook of hard, intimate, beautiful work of having relationship across lines of race and class, where resources are actually moving. And so it has really also been part of my work to move resources to Black and Indigenous, mostly friends and their projects, and their dreams, for the world.  So that's a little of how I'm seeing things happen in my own story,and those of others similarly as well, and the spiritual piece, there's no way to move resources that one has been taught are for one's own safety and security out to the world, in the spirit of repair, without asking some of the deepest questions about what does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to be human? How am I going to do this thing called life? How am I going to dare to do it differently than I was told I should? And those are spiritual questions, they're questions that we can only live the answers, we can't just find them and it also brings up, as I was speaking to earlier, what is my relationship with my ancestors? How do I feel them? How do I feel about what's happening now? And what is my relationship with land? As a settler on land that is still occupied by me and others? What does it mean to listen for right relationship with the more than human beings? And to understand that, that process of my own transformation of how I'm living, to shift as much as I can out of the extractive norms of our world? That's a spiritual practice.

Ayana Young Yeah, I think the spiritual, psychological elements are so necessary, like they are the foundation for this work. And I think about just the way we're taught to feel like we are owed something, or what's the word that I've heard, not that I watch Fox News regularly or anything, but I feel like, when I've seen it, there's this, like this, you know, I'm owed this or I deserve this, or I worked really hard for this, or my grandparents work really hard for this. And, you know, pull yourself up from your bootstraps. And to me, that also ties into Manifest Destiny, and just the whole way that the United States was formed, especially through the white settler vision of like, if you work hard, then you deserve this inheritance, and you deserve the wealth accumulation. But there's no talk about the enslaved people who made that actually happen, or the externalities on the Earth, like, no money is created freely, like it's being taken from somewhere, from someone, from people, from land, from water. And so even the people who are "self made", like even that statement, nobody is self made. Even if you had not one human working for you, you are taking everything from the Earth to create your self-madeness. And so yeah, I think this unlearning of what we are owed, or what we deserve. And then the question is what is our real inheritance, then? And if we can let go of the idea of what we're owed or what we are born into, and how does that free folks to reinterpret what inheritance might be? And then the question is like, what can we then actually pass down that really matters? What stories or artifacts or traditions might make up a deep inheritance and a familial connection far beyond money or material wealth?

Morgan Curtis I mean, I really find when I ask people, and when I've been asked myself, "What is it that you want future generations to inherit?" Most people go to a livable planet, like most people go to "Oh, I just, I want them to be able to live, I want them to know that they are loved. I want them to know they belong." And somehow we've been in this delusion that stealing from others to create temporary material abundance in one place is anything comparable to that? And yeah, when I think about what I want, my descendants to inherit it's deep relationship to land and to place, to the knowing of the beings they share this Earth with, a sense of a broad, interdependent human community where they are deeply known and cared for by many outside of conventional notions of family. I want them to know in their bodies that they have what it takes to care for themselves and care for others, that their gifts are reflected to them by elders and mentors, that they know the truth of their history and the violent legacies that they have been part of, such that they can continue the work of making different choices. There's so much I want for them, and it doesn't look like money. One time, my dad said to me, "Morgan, I spent my whole career thinking that my job was to maximize the inheritance of my children. And you're asking me to question all of that." And I heard the pain for him in that, of what is it to question one's purpose towards the end of one's life? And, yes, I am asking him and the generations before us to question all of that.

Ayana Young I want to go back to Resource Generation, which you had mentioned before, and I want to read their Transformative Investment Principles, it says, "Our financial system is intentionally complicated and abstract in order to one; systemically deny access to women, People of Color, poor and working class communities, LGBTQ folks, and other marginalized groups and two; hide the dehumanizing harmful and inequitable nature of investments." And, yeah, I just think it would be interesting, I'm imagining a lot of folks have never heard of Resource Generation or the work that they're doing, or the work that a lot of folks are doing to bring light to these complicated financial systems. And, yeah, I'm wondering, so much of the physical structure of our world is shaped by concepts of debt, or wealth accrual, and inheritance, and I'm wondering how does talking about and demystifying wealth serve to make obvious the ways exploitation has become common courtesy? And then how do we strip away the capitalist alienation that makes complacency within these systems so easy?

Morgan Curtis Yeah, I'm really, I'm really grateful for Resource Generation and generations of people thinking about these questions before me, and that made that space possible. Yeah, RG is a space where I think sooner or later, if you're a young person under 36, with wealth, whether earned or inherited, and with progressive social justice or radical values, someone's going to be like, "Have you heard of RG?" And that was definitely what happened to me. And it gets to be a space where people can talk about things that they've never had the space to talk about before, which is emotional, and it's processing the feelings and family stories and the the journey of what it's been like to, as we spoke to earlier, be the beneficiary of an unjust system. And it's the space for political education, and it's a space for learning about the history of racial capitalism and beginning to become a better advocate for bringing that analysis to our families and other wealthy communities, and it's a space for financial education. I think really often, folks who have some financial wealth, especially those that inherited it, who have social justice values, there can be like, I'm just not going to look at this, like, I'm going to pretend this isn't there, or I'm going to just avoid having to face this because, yeah, so often, especially women and queer folks are not being given even conventional financial education, let alone radical or reinterpreted financial education. And so yeah, RG did a lot of work over the last few years to develop those transformative investment principles that are really inviting people to reckon with where does the money you have sleep at night? What is it up to when it's not yours, when it's at the bank, when it's in the investment portfolio? And, yeah, what we see is 99% of the time, money that's out there, supposedly in our name, is up to something, it's up to being used by multinational corporations. It's providing investment and resources to maximize shareholder profits, and further the concentration of wealth, and what we're seeing right now is alternatives emerging. I would point towards just one example of Seed Commons, which is a national network of non-extractive loan funds, governed at community level, resourcing worker owned cooperatives where profits belong to the workers that produced them and it's possible to put one's resources into that pool instead of into the S&P 500, and I feel lucky to be in this work, at this time, where such alternatives are emerging.

Ayana Young That's really good to hear about. And I do wonder, where, if you know, which I'm assuming you have some ideas, like, if folks want to find out more resources of where they can invest or learn where the money goes like, and who maybe won't be members of Resource Generation, do you have any ideas of where people can follow these threads?

Morgan Curtis Yeah, you mentioned my resource library earlier, I have links in there that point towards a lot of different alternative impact, regenerative solidarity, economy investments, this world goes by a lot of names, as well as to financial advisors and financial planners who are able to support people to take their money away from Wall Street and reinvest it in community. One I would point towards is Revalue Investing, out of Michigan, can support folks to make a financial plan and put their money 100% in community enterprises that further solidarity and economic self determination for communities of color instead of wealth extraction and hoarding and accumulation for a white elite. And, yeah, there's also The Next Egg, which is a community of people thinking about how to do that with retirement money, which is where the majority of Americans that do have investments, have those investments in retirement accounts. That's a big question that's being worked on is, yeah, how do we reinterpret what it means to make a long term investment? Perhaps a long term investment that furthers climate change, or increases wealth inequality is not actually the best thing for our retirement. So grateful for all those folks doing that good work.

Ayana Young Yeah. Thanks for the resource library, I'm sure there's a lot there to get into. And, you know, earlier you had mentioned and, of course, I know this about you, all of your work with climate justice, and I'm interested to see or to hear what your thoughts about climate change are at this point, you know, as you've spent a number of years in the movement and how your work has grown and expanded, shifted, and where you feel like the most effective future for climate organizing. Yeah, what direction that is going in could go in? Yeah, I don't want to say I should go in because I don't know if any of us know that. 

Morgan Curtis Sometimes people ask me, like, "Oh, how come you don't do that climate stuff anymore?" And I still see my work as part of a climate movement broadly defined. Yeah, it was really what I was asked to do by my peers and elders in the climate justice space was like, please go do the work with your own people. And it's, yeah, how do we, those of us who are stewarding unequal amounts of financial resources, how do we actually invest those in a just transition away from an extractive economy and towards a regenerative life sustaining economy? That's a framework from Movement Generation, and we need to do it faster than we can possibly imagine and we need to do it in a way that attends to the histories that brought us into climate catastrophe. And if we move forward into building a new economy that continues to accumulate wealth and power for a small elite, we will not get to a place of stability in our human family and on this planet. And so there's urgency, in many cases to slow down and listen to one another, and to heal from these histories and from these legacies through repair. I feel like what I've really learned is, like, the futures that Indigenous people dream of, the futures that Black folks dream of, those are the futures we all need, at this time, and so as we get out of the way, as we move our resources, our prayers, our energy towards the leadership of those that our ancestors harmed, we can move into a place where maybe one day all of our descendants can share this planet in a better way. 

Ayana Young As we come to a close, I just want to pull a bit more on those dreams, or the visions of what abundance could look like in the future and how it could center healing and equity. I just would like to kind of visualize it all together.

Morgan Curtis Two things that are coming first to mind are land, right relationship with land, Indigenous sovereignty and stewardship of land. The world's biodiversity is most concentrated on Indigenous lands. What does that tell us about the possibility for ecological regeneration if more and more land can be returned to Indigenous hands and I think about the legacy of Black cooperative development of ancestral practices, of sharing and of building power in community rather than in hierarchy. And what it is to move towards a world in which resources and responsibilities and return, some rewards, are shared amongst all people, those who worked for them as well as those who are not able to work and where children and elders are cared for and valued as intimate parts of a village of people. Village might be a word that I feel like I've been taught, and I am learning to lean into what we need to remember and move towards again.

Ayana Young Oh, Morgan, thank you so much for sharing some time with us and taking us on this journey with you. I feel really contemplative, and yeah, just letting it all soak in. And I just appreciate your work and how much love and joy and compassion you have brought into it.

Morgan Curtis Thank you for this opportunity to contemplate and reflect with you and just grateful to be also co-dreaming, co-listening, co-learning with you and look forward to where our paths will continue to cross and yeah, just a privilege to get to spend some time

Francesca Glaspell Thank you for listening to For The Wild Podcast. The music you heard today was by Andy Tallent, Handmade Moments and Ela Spalding. For The Wild is created by Ayana Young, Erica Ekrem, Francesca Glaspell, and Julia Jackson.